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Square cut on one side of table saw only

by optimusprimer92
posted 03-05-2018 02:33 AM


23 replies so far

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#1 posted 03-05-2018 02:35 AM

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Woodknack

13471 posts in 3227 days


#2 posted 03-05-2018 02:48 AM

What you describe isn’t runout. If the arbor were deformed you would be getting crazy vibration but it wouldn’t cause the problem you describe. Have you checked that the miter slots are parallel? The sled would be hard to move if not. Have you aligned the blade to the miter slot. Does the cut piece contact the back of the blade on the right side but not the left? Is the sled fence straight?

BTW, you posted this before and we tried to explain then that it wasn’t runout causing the problem.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/254577

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#3 posted 03-05-2018 03:01 AM

I really think that I have runout. I have a large amount of blade wobble that is easily visible upon start up and shutoff. The kerf is also larger on both sides than the blade itself. Lastly, if I mark a tooth on the blade and set it firmly against a keft in a cut piece, as I rotate the blade from front to back, it will shift away from the cut. If I keep rotating the blade by hand, the teeth move closer and farther from the kerf whether it is measured from the back or the front. If that is not runnout, I have no idea what it is. Oh, and the blade is a brand new Diablo that is dead flat.

Now as for fixing it, how do you align the miter slots to a blade that is attached to an arbor with runout (if that is the case)? The miter slots are parallel and the sled slides easily.

One last thing. I believe my last thread was because of my old crosscut sled. I don’t know what happened, but when I made it, the cuts were square but at some point something happened and it wouldn’t cut square anymore. That is why I made the new one.

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bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2842 days


#4 posted 03-05-2018 03:02 AM

Is your fence straight/flat?

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#5 posted 03-05-2018 03:05 AM

Ya, the back fence is square, or so I thought. When I adjusted for square with the 5 cut method, I did everything from the left side of the blade so I adjusted the fence accordingly.

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Woodknack

13471 posts in 3227 days


#6 posted 03-05-2018 03:24 AM

Troubleshooting is a step by step process, you don’t start at a conclusion and work backwards. It sounds like you’ve never set up the saw properly so you need to do that before troubleshooting a sled. Jump on youtube and watch some videos on setting up a table saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7Z3h0ovcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRSarTJLMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNT5SkxIhKQ

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#7 posted 03-05-2018 03:24 AM


Does the cut piece contact the back of the blade on the right side but not the left? Is the sled fence straight?

When I cut a piece on the sled, the left side of the cut looks like ( l ) but the right side is angled like ( / ).

And I exaggerated a bit. The difference is about 1/32”, not 1/16”

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IantheTinker

285 posts in 974 days


#8 posted 03-05-2018 03:25 AM

I would be taking a second, and then a third, look at the back fence of that sled. I don’t understand how you could get a square cut on one side and not on the other, especially since the blade is flat. It just doesn’t make sense that it would be the arbor, at least not by my understanding.

I have so much trouble with squaring the back fence on my sleds that I am thinking of using aluminum angle as the fence on my next one.

-- pensivewoodworker.com

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Woodknack

13471 posts in 3227 days


#9 posted 03-05-2018 03:27 AM

The only way I can see it happening is if the blade is not parallel to the miter slot and the back of the blade is widening the kerf. But that should be pretty obvious. It would also create a kerf much wider than the blade.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#10 posted 03-05-2018 03:31 AM



Troubleshooting is a step by step process, you don t start at a conclusion and work backwards. It sounds like you ve never set up the saw properly so you need to do that before troubleshooting a sled. Jump on youtube and watch some videos on setting up a table saw.

Ya, I guess man. I thought I had it set up before I ever turned it on. I originally had the miter slots squared to the blade perfectly. Took me about a week to get the fence set up because the rails are so finicky. I don’t know anymore. Now if I measure from the miter slot, the teeth are inconsistent from front to back. They literally change distance front to back when I rotate the same tooth. Then when I pick another tooth, it will be opposite from the original tooth. Everytime I ever raised the blade or lowered it, I had to resquare it for some reason. This is another reason I was lead to believe the arbor was the culprit.

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#11 posted 03-05-2018 03:33 AM



I would be taking a second, and then a third, look at the back fence of that sled. I don’t understand how you could get a square cut on one side and not on the other, especially since the blade is flat. It just doesn’t make sense that it would be the arbor, at least not by my understanding.

I have so much trouble with squaring the back fence on my sleds that I am thinking of using aluminum angle as the fence on my next one.

- IantheTinker

I get that ! I’m about to chuck this thing. My old ridgid jobsite saw never gave me even half the problems I am having currently.

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#12 posted 03-05-2018 03:35 AM



The only way I can see it happening is if the blade is not parallel to the miter slot and the back of the blade is widening the kerf. But that should be pretty obvious. It would also create a kerf much wider than the blade.

- Woodknack

I’ll give it another shot and see if that works. If the blade wasn’t aligned, wouldn’t the blade just always be at a constant angle compared to the slot? My blade changes angles compared to the slot when rotated by hand.

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000

2859 posts in 1746 days


#13 posted 03-05-2018 03:37 AM

Have you tried it with a different blade?

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IantheTinker

285 posts in 974 days


#14 posted 03-05-2018 03:37 AM



I get that ! I m about to chuck this thing. My old ridgid jobsite saw never gave me even half the problems I am having currently.

- optimusprimer92

My old Dewalt jobsite saw also gave me less trouble that the contractors saw I currently use. But the contractor saw has a much larger table and it is cast iron. So I am willing to tolerate the negatives…for now.

-- pensivewoodworker.com

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#15 posted 03-05-2018 03:42 AM



Have you tried it with a different blade?

- jbay

Sure have. I’ve tried 4 blades lol

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playingwithmywood

444 posts in 2444 days


#16 posted 03-05-2018 04:07 AM

Do you own a dial indicator ?

https://youtu.be/noHcD9zXa_w

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TheFridge

10861 posts in 2333 days


#17 posted 03-05-2018 04:31 AM

Fence of sled is off. Screw the left side down good if it’s not and readjust the right side.

Sounds like your miter slots are out as well. Id line blade and fence up the the right side.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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optimusprimer92

43 posts in 1409 days


#18 posted 03-05-2018 04:41 AM



Fence of sled is off. Screw the left side down good if it’s not and readjust the right side.

Sounds like your miter slots are out as well. Id line blade and fence up the the right side.

- TheFridge

Thanks Fridge. I think you must be right about the fence. I thought it was bombproof since I clamped a square steel tube to it when I screwed it down so it would be straight. Somehow the right side must have gotten misaligned…how I have no idea. But I’ll do that tomorrow and just adjust the right side. Seems so weird to me.

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Lazyman

5794 posts in 2234 days


#19 posted 03-05-2018 04:51 AM

I had the exact same problem with my first cross cut sled. The fence on your sled is not flat. I’ll bet if you put a long enough straight edge against it, you will find you can slide a feeler gauge under it somewhere along it. It doesn’t take much a bow to cause the problem you describe. It has to be be perfectly flat for accurate cuts.

As to the wobble, the first and easiest thing to do is check to see if the blade is flat. Lay it on the top of the table and make sure it doesn’t rock on either side. I have the same saw and the blade that came with the saw, for example, wasn’t flat, making it impossible to check whether the blade is aligned with the miter slots. Or just buy another blade and see if the problem goes away or is different.

LJ thetinman has an excellent blog entry about how to align the blade on this saw if that turns out to be the problem.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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simoncpj

23 posts in 1359 days


#20 posted 03-05-2018 05:45 AM

Two things seem possible from a mathematical perspective (geometry in this case). First, your fence isn’t linear across the face. If you somehow put a curve in it on the right side you could create an angled cut. Second, you could be enough out of square with your blade to your mitre slots, blade runs left to right from front to back if so, the leading edge chews off a square cut on the left but when cutting on the right causes the blade to shift/push the piece to the right as the cut is made. If that were the case, you should see both a difference in measurement from tooth to mitre slot front to back and it should start to bind when cutting with the fence (if you aligned to mitre slot not blade).

Bottom line, start again with setup. Blade to mitre slot first. Then fence. Then sled.

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Woodknack

13471 posts in 3227 days


#21 posted 03-05-2018 07:01 AM



Bottom line, start again with setup. Blade to mitre slot first. Then fence. Then sled.
- simoncpj

Exactly.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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mindbent

9 posts in 949 days


#22 posted 03-05-2018 08:54 AM

How do you know your blade is dead flat? To allign a blade with run out you put either the high spot or low spot at the top. What are you using to allign the blade? You said when you adjust the blade up or down you have to reallign it. Maybe something is loose or broken. Is the blade at 90deg?

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therealSteveN

6235 posts in 1421 days


#23 posted 03-05-2018 09:45 AM


Troubleshooting is a step by step process, you don t start at a conclusion and work backwards. It sounds like you ve never set up the saw properly so you need to do that before troubleshooting a sled. Jump on youtube and watch some videos on setting up a table saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7Z3h0ovcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRSarTJLMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNT5SkxIhKQ
- Woodknack

I absolutely agree that the OP needs to go through these video’s, and adjust as needed. I believe on the first vid, the Jim Heavy at the 3 minute mark he will find the biggest one problem that will repair the problem he has. I don’t believe his blade is 90* to the table, that he has the blade tilted. It would be the only way he could be out on one side, yet dead on the other. Actually he is out both ways, but has chosen to un-adjust to the error to the left side of the blade.

Blade runout/wobble would not allow him to have any appearance to square from either side of the blade, because it is going back and forth he could never get square. IOW one sided wobble just doesn’t exist.

I used to supplement my income by buying others “useless junk” spending a few minutes/hours adjusting, and cleaning these neglected tools to a correct state, and reselling them for a tidy profit. Goofiest part was as I was buying them I would use a small square to check the machine right in front of them. I was seeing the errors as they were watching me see it, but they were always convinced it was “useless junk” they just couldn’t see it was simple misalignment.

I don’t recall seeing the tools used here to “measure” the problems. Some use the cheap knockoffs of quality tools, and then are surprised the tool says it’s ok, where the tool itself is out. If you cannot afford precision tools to adjust with, go to the craft store and buy the cheap PLASTIC tools for 90 and 45, they are very accurate, though will not have a long lifetime in a woodworking shop, but hey replaced once every year or 3 they are a good substitute, you will not find a quality square at the BORG, or HF. You will find tools that will mask, and or compound your problem though.

The 3 linked videos are all about a cabinet saw. The OP’s Delta 36-725 is a contractor saw, and for that I like Sandor’s video for the most complete look. All of the others can be referred to, they pretty much say the same, it’s just that hearing how one person says something is often better understood than anothers.

Sandor's table saw tune up

Thread showing exact same saw set up here by another LJ member

-- Think safe, be safe

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