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View Karda's profile

oval skew

by Karda
posted 02-10-2018 06:32 PM


25 replies so far

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12924 posts in 2914 days


#1 posted 02-10-2018 07:04 PM

The longer the bevel, the better it will cut soft wood but will also dull faster and arguably catches easier. Shorter bevels will stay sharp longer etc. I have half a dozen skews, or more, and they are all sharpened at different angles.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2462 posts in 3478 days


#2 posted 02-10-2018 07:04 PM

I don’t have any oval skews, but after looking around on line, it appears they’d sharpen just like any other skew, if you could keep them stable.

You could make a simple clamp from wood. The bottom piece of the clamp would have the flat surface to run on your tool rest. A screw and a knob on each end would allow you to clamp the skew and hold its edge parallel to the wheel or belt. I’d just carve a slight cup into the bottom piece of, say, 3/4” wood so the thing would be less likely to roll off parallel.

To set the skew up for sharpening, I’d do the felt tip marker thing, insert the skew into the holder, rest it on the wheel and clamp it. Turn the wheel by hand to see if you have the angle you want (removal of the felt tip marker). When happy, go for it.

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Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#3 posted 02-10-2018 10:52 PM

thats basically what I am doing now but no clamp. I like a longer bevel. for some reason I can’t get a short bevel as sharp as it should be. I grind to about 30 degrees but that don’t seem to work as well as longer. would I be ok in grinding a shorter bevel on the edge

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2462 posts in 3478 days


#4 posted 02-11-2018 02:16 AM

The more I learn about turning, the more I learn you are doing it right for you. If you have the best control with a longer bevel, you must be about right.

A lot of people like a secondary bevel. Nothing wrong with experimenting. My Benjamin’s Best knives have gotten a lot shorter in a few short years. I’m pretty close to where I want to be on the skews, spindle gouges and rouging gouges. Haven’t done much on bowls, so that’s all still in the experimental stage.

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Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#5 posted 02-11-2018 03:42 AM

I am learning to get the bevel I want on my regular skew but the oval it harder because to follow the original bevel the blade contacts at the top of the wheel,

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2462 posts in 3478 days


#6 posted 02-11-2018 05:37 PM

Are you free handing or using a jig when you sharpen your knives?

I use the Wolverine Jig with my grinder. The bar lets me get far enough back, even on long handled knives, landing at the top of the wheel isn’t a problem.

A few places on line show how to make your own. Captain Eddy comes to mind. He has a lot of good information, as do others.

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Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#7 posted 02-11-2018 05:50 PM

Hi, I free hand my skews because I use a radius grind similar to the Lacer grind. You can’t do that on a jig. At this point I only use the straight skew for doing the dovetail on recesses. Maybe I’ll have to use a jig for my oval

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Kelly

2462 posts in 3478 days


#8 posted 02-11-2018 06:47 PM

I haven’t gotten around to it yet, but I plan on scribbing some permanent lines into my support plate to make clear the location of the 90, the 45’s and so on. If nothing else, they’d provide good reference points for starting and ending grinds like you’re describing.

Generally, 50 to 90 percent of my grinding is freehand, since I’m spending only seconds to touch up a tip. I don’t use the jig until I’ve well established how sloppy I can be free handing.

Sometimes, the knife is too short or the handle and such otherwise get in the way of laying the knife flat on the rest. When it does, I have to mount a block of wood to raise the knife, say 1/4”, so the blade stock remains parallel to the rest.

On a side note, people can say what they want about muscle memory and free hand, but those who do cannot claim to be expert at: 1) pocket knives; 2) [various] kitchen knives; 3) every wood lathe knife; 4) lawn mower blades; 5) chisels; 6) hand plane blades; 7). . . .

__
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ6trlIHF68&feature=youtu.be&t=53s

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12924 posts in 2914 days


#9 posted 02-12-2018 05:46 AM

:) This turning text from 1850 should clear things up.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Karda's profile

Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#10 posted 02-12-2018 06:25 AM

i don’t get it, I do understand the 2 angle for skew but does that include gouges as well

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 1038 days


#11 posted 02-12-2018 01:03 PM

I only use the one angle on my turning tools. It is my understanding that, for cutting tools in general, two angles serves to allow a shallower {maybe shallow is not the word} main grind with less of an angle at the edge to help provide one that lasts longer. Example, a knife blade ground on 15 degrees for the main blade would quickly dull in use because that is too sharp {or shallow} and too thin at the cutting edge. So, to help it last a little longer in use the final second angle is ground to 20 or 25 degrees.
I use one angle on all my turning tools, it’s not as if they last or stay super sharp very long anyways. They are easier to sharpen with one angle and especially a skew, to me, needs just one because you start out with the bevel rubbing and raise it to a cut. I don’t really find my skews getting dull very fast, in fact I almost never put them to the grinder…I just do a frequent whetting on the stone. Just my opinion and what works for me….take it for what it’s worth.

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

683 posts in 1836 days


#12 posted 02-12-2018 03:58 PM



:) This turning text from 1850 should clear things up.
- Rick_M

Rick, is that from Holtzapffel?

Nothing against the oval skew but I prefer the flat.
Mine are about 20 deg per side or 40 deg inclusive.
If you have watched Lacer’s full video (The Sweet Side, The Dark Side?) he does suggest a straight grind for beginners even though he promotes the curved blade.
I reground one of mine to a curved edge and could find no benefit for me so I went back to straight. I like the straight better for turning beads with the short point.
I hone mine so they only go to the grinder maybe just once a year and then only to deepen the hollow grind to make honing easier and quicker. Usually takes me about 15 seconds to hone since it is straight; if I had to work around a curve honing would take me much longer.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12924 posts in 2914 days


#13 posted 02-12-2018 06:21 PM


Rick, is that from Holtzapffel?

- LeeMills

It is. I mostly posted it as a joke because of the old fashioned way of phrasing things but it does mention grind angles.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Karda's profile

Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#14 posted 02-12-2018 06:56 PM

Yea Lee that old composition was something else I think the rule was to to use a paragraph to say what can be said in a sentence but old English is much worse. I use curved skew because I don’t get as many catches I have an oval skew because that is what I bought first, not knowing any better. I do like it but is difficult to sharpen. I haven’t got the knack of honing yet. When ever I hone I usually have to put it on the grinder to get the edge back. next time I am going to try a marker and see what I am doing wrong

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

683 posts in 1836 days


#15 posted 02-12-2018 10:30 PM


I have an oval skew because that is what I bought first, not knowing any better. I do like it but is difficult to sharpen. I haven t got the knack of honing yet. When ever I hone I usually have to put it on the grinder to get the edge back. next time I am going to try a marker and see what I am doing wrong
- Karda

I don’t think there is any “not knowing better”. If you ask turners for their recommendation for learning videos one of the top three usually includes Keith Rowley’s A Foundation Course. Keith like many other fine turners prefer the oval skew. I have no problem with the oval skew but flat was what I bought first and learned with. I don’t think I will ever wear mine down to unusable so I may never buy another.

Just in radius vs straight there may be some benefits to both. With the radius with a peeling cut you can only get so much tool into the wood as it curves away. With my straight I have to be more careful of the entire tool width may make contact.

This is a video by Alan Lacer on sharpening and honing the skew. If having to go back to the grinder after honing it sounds like you are coming off of the back (heel) of the bevel and rounding over the cutting edge. Just a wag. An important part to me is anchoring the tool handle to yourself or bench so it can not move. If both the tool and hone can move it is much more difficult to keep control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmCxDToHm6Y

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#16 posted 02-12-2018 11:10 PM

my problem is not sharpening the flat skew I am getting that, its the oval skew I am having problems with. I haven’t neenable to find any videos on sharpening that skew. I would change the grind but the bevel is quite long.

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

683 posts in 1836 days


#17 posted 02-13-2018 01:46 PM

Ah ha.
This is one jig at AAW with no clamp.
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/skew-sharpening-jig.6730/
Here is one at Canadian Woodworking but more complex than necessary to me. I would just recess nuts (and epoxy in) on one side and a screw on the other short enough for the head to recess. The screw should not need to be adjusted more than maybe 1/16 to provide plenty of room to insert/remove the tool.
https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/woodworking/turning/30540-oval-skew-sharpening-jig
A file or rasp or a Dremel with the small drum sander would remove the necessary wood quickly.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View HapHazzard's profile

HapHazzard

116 posts in 1402 days


#18 posted 02-14-2018 05:28 AM

Mike, don’t take this as a criticism, but I think those people who put those oval skews in starter tool sets really do a disservice. I know because I fell for it too.

The oval skew is hard to use because skews catch when you cut with a part of the edge that’s unsupported. With an oval skew, only the middle is supported, and even that is wobbly. So your curved grind only partially solves the problem that the oval profile causes, and as if a radius grind wasn’t tricky enough, that oval shape also makes it even harder because, like a diamond parting tool, there’s no straight edge to orient the cutting edge at a consistent angle to the stone. Considering how problematic that blade profile is, you’d think it would have some really awesome redeeming virtues, but I can’t think of any.

Do you have any other skews? I think if you try a rectangular skew for a while you’re going to wonder what you ever saw in the oval. That’s certainly been my experience.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View Karda's profile

Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#19 posted 02-14-2018 06:54 AM

I have a 1” straight skew and a one inch radius, I use the oval skew mostly for doing dovetails. I don’t do much spindle work but will be doing more, Im out of bowl wood

View HapHazzard's profile

HapHazzard

116 posts in 1402 days


#20 posted 02-15-2018 01:41 AM

I do spindle turning exclusively. If you want something fun and easy to cut your teeth on, try turning some tool handles.

When I first got into it, the first thing I did was buy replacements for all the handles on my wife’s garden tools. They were getting weathered and cracked and looked a regular splinterfest waiting to happen, but my ulterior motive was to use all that aged white ash to turn some handles for all my tools with broken handles and files that never had handles. They were just about thick enough to make decent handles after I cut away all the weathered wood, and even the badly warped ones were usable for shorter handles.

A couple of years ago I noticed the handles on the wheelbarrow were looking pretty sad, so I replaced them too. These turned out to be hickory, which is great for socket chisels and hammer handles. When you’re ready to try some eccentric turning, hammer handles are fun, and who doesn’t have a few hammers that need new handles?

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View Karda's profile

Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#21 posted 02-15-2018 02:28 AM

thanks for the suggestion, I have turned some of my lathe handles and am thinking of changing them all over. I can’t do wheel borrow handles because they are iron pipe. what i am planning on is honey dippers. I made one with out a pattern and it didn’t turnout to bad except it looks like Bam Bam’s club with slots

View HapHazzard's profile

HapHazzard

116 posts in 1402 days


#22 posted 02-15-2018 02:42 AM

Try hornbeam, if you can get your hands on some. It isn’t heavily grained, and it’s very hard. I’d use a bedan to shape the segments, then plunge cut the grooves with a parting tool. If you do it the other way around you risk breaking the disks.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View Karda's profile

Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#23 posted 02-15-2018 05:21 AM

i have heard of it but I thought it was a bush, well that was back in high school. I’ll keep an eye out. so far all I am seeing is where trees have been cut and nobody around to ask if there is wood there. just up the hill ,is a bunch of wood that the county cut clearing a bank but nobody can take it,Its on posted land. They left it for people to take. its gone everywhere else but that is just laying there rotting such a waste

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

683 posts in 1836 days


#24 posted 02-15-2018 02:39 PM

I was looking at sharpening negative rake scrapers and found this.
If you skip over to 11:15 minutes he shows honing the scraper and your oval skew would be the same. The longer the bevel the easier it is to ride both the heel and cutting edge at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whvoaFgkCpw

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Karda's profile

Karda

1762 posts in 1088 days


#25 posted 02-16-2018 01:50 AM

thanks lee that is a good video, I haven’t seen it yet because I don’t have a negative rake yet,except for my skews. Thanks Mike

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