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View Trout121180's profile

15” planer

by Trout121180
posted 02-08-2018 02:38 PM


27 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4184 days


#1 posted 02-08-2018 03:07 PM

You might take as look at Woodmaster. They
have dc feed motors instead of a gearbox so they
can feed really slow for a fine finish.

I had a 4-post planer I wasn’t crazy about, but that
was because I found the 2hp motor couldn’t take
deeper cuts and I found myself having to take
more passes than with my previous planer. I never
messed with the speed control on it but I think
it only had 2-speeds.

My present planer is European made and has a lever
on the side for variable speed. The speed range
is pretty wide but it’s done with pulleys I think
and has a separate ac motor for the speed. The
wider speed range is probably because of the
separate motor.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

5228 posts in 4497 days


#2 posted 02-08-2018 03:44 PM

Why did you eliminate Grizzly/Shop Fox?
Bill

-- [email protected]

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#3 posted 02-08-2018 04:05 PM

Hello Bill,
From my understanding the 15” planers from steelex,shopfox and grizzley are behind schedule and won’t be available until sometime after April. Also from the information that I could find these were the lower quality machines out of the ones I mention. As I stated above I am under the impression that most of these are the same besides the fit and finish. And although everyone has there favorite it seems that the gerneral consensus is that Grizzly (shopfox and steelex) are not made to the high tolerances of the other companies. All that being said the powermatic is almost $1,000 more than the shopfox. But my train of thought is that I would feel better with the 5 year warranty vs a one or two year warranty. And overall I would be getting a better machine with a lower chance of getting a machine that I will ha e issues with. Whether that be right from the start or years down the road.

Luke

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 1040 days


#4 posted 02-08-2018 04:26 PM

I like Powermatic…but that is just me. I have owned Grizzly and had absolutely zero issues. I currently have a Shop Fox lathe and it works just fine, zero complaints. Powermatic seems to retain more resale value than the others. I can also add that Powermatic has excellent first rate customer service. I had to use them once and I can say without hesitation they are fantastic {well, at least they were with me}.
All that said, when you say the others aren’t available until April, are you sure the ones that you believe are available actually really are??? Many machine sellers play this game where they advertise as though they have whatever you want. They do this just to get the sale and your money and then tell you…”they are not shipping for another month”, etc. Insert various excuses. They have your money, they string you along knowing you don’t like it but cant do anything about it. Just saying…just because a website has a “add to cart” spot to click on does not mean they actually have the machine sitting there. I am going thru this right now with a PM2000 cabinet saw that was supposed to take one week a month ago. I got a call yesterday that I should have it in another month because they are building the latest model with digital blade angle readout. Before they have your money it’s “one week” then once they have it the timeline automatically jumps to at least “another month”.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3555 posts in 2017 days


#5 posted 02-08-2018 04:40 PM

The Steelex, Grizzly G0453Z and PM 15HH are identical machines. The difference in cost is the name, the motor and the switch.

If you buy the PM then you’re paying $1000 for maybe a better motor and the yellow paint.

The Grizzly 20” has been rock solid performer in my shop for >10 years.

You need pretty deep pockets to afford Baileigh or Oliver.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#6 posted 02-08-2018 04:45 PM

Actually the baileigh is right around the same price as the powermatic. It sure about the Oliver but I think it is a little more expensive. But it also comes with a 5hp motor rather than the 3hp motor that lo the other brands have. And I am sure that I could get the powermatic within a week after ordering it. But as far as all the other brands I am not sure.

DOes anyone ha e first hand experience with either the laguna Oliver or baileigh?

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View summerfi's profile (online now)

summerfi

4331 posts in 2224 days


#7 posted 02-08-2018 06:39 PM

I went through the same decision process last fall and ended up buying the Powermatic on Black Friday at 15% off. The Grizzly and it’s clones use foreign made cutter heads with 14mm cutters that are straight on the sides and aligned straight with the board. Jet uses 15mm cutters with a radius on the sides that are canted to the board, but the cutter head is also foreign made. Powermatic uses the same cutters as Jet, but the cutter head is USA made Shelix brand. The Powermatic also has a few more cutters than Jet. Since the cutter head is really where the rubber meets the road on planers, I felt better about the Powermatic, especially with the nice discount, longer warranty, better resale value, and good customer service. So far I’ve not been disappointed. I can’t speak to the Laguna, Baileigh or Oliver.

-- Bob, Missoula, MT -- Rocky Mountain Saw Works http://www.rmsaws.com/p/about-us.html -- ~Non multa sed multum~

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#8 posted 02-08-2018 07:48 PM

Thanks Bob, I agree with your posts and I’m strongly leaning in that direction. I guess the fact that NO ONE seems to own the laguna, Baileigh, or Oliver says something. If they were better machines someone would have said something by now.

Luke

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

1368 posts in 1456 days


#9 posted 02-08-2018 08:29 PM

Trout121180,

Woodmaster may be worth a look. They offer 12”, 18”, and 25” wide planers. In addition to the dc variable speed feed motor mentioned by Loren, their planers can also be converted into moulding machines and offer other features. These machines are made in Missouri and feature USA made 5 hp or 7.5 hp motors. My 12” Woodmaster planer was bought in the late 1980’s and still runs well, although I am a hobbyist. They offer a 60 day money back guarantee and a 5 year limited warranty. They are offering sale pricing until February 19.

http://www.woodmastertools.com/molder_planers

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#10 posted 02-08-2018 10:51 PM

That’s makes two people mentioning woodmaster. I have never really seen them disscussed until today. I really appreciate the info. I am going to try and see what kind of info I can gather on them. Thank you both for bringing them to my attention.

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4184 days


#11 posted 02-08-2018 11:02 PM

I never buy machinery new. I had a Woodmaster
though and I thought it was a good machine.
It’s a bit pricey but if you compare an 18”
new Woodmaster to a 20” Powermatic, both
with helical heads, you’ll find the Woodmaster
offers variable speed and molding capacity at
a similar price. I wouldn’t recommend getting
excited about making custom molding for big
profits with a Woodmaster as their marketing
suggests, but they are good machines.

I like to buy and sell machinery and see what
different things do. I’ve found some great bargains
at auctions and from private sellers, but I understand
that some people want to buy once and just
focus on working with wood.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1461 posts in 1760 days


#12 posted 02-09-2018 01:20 AM

I have a 20” grizzly with a helical head and never had any problems. It has always left an excellent finish that needed minimal sanding.
I always though Baileigh was also using the same factories as Grizzly, just painting the machines blue. For that matter, most of the planers you’re still considering are all basically the same mold just different specs.

Check this link… http://www.geetech.com.tw/index.php/en/strategic-partenrship-e

That being said, I have a Woodmaster on order as I make a lot of turning blanks and work with large slabs so I have the 25” with the helical head and a shaft with 4 saw blades to be able to rip stock quick. Woodmaster is not cheap, but it’s owned by the same company that made my sawmill and they have excellent customer service. If I have a question on a new product or an idea on how to use something, I can email the president of the company and he messages usually within minutes and tells me the answer, or gets the person who can answer it for me in contact.

View Kelster58's profile

Kelster58

759 posts in 1076 days


#13 posted 02-10-2018 01:18 AM

We have been replacing equipment in our school over the past ten years. We’ve purchased Bailiegh, Saw Stop, and Grizzly. Students can be tough on equipment. The only equipment we haven’t had problems with is Grizzly. Baileigh and Saw Stop pieces all went down. Both companies were responsive with parts and solutions. We had to repair the equipment ourselves. The grizzly pieces are still cranking, no problems. I can tell you none of those pieces are babied, the students use them hard and they learn the hard way with them some times….......

-- K. Stone “Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn.” ― Benjamin Franklin

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#14 posted 02-10-2018 09:01 AM

Once again thank you to everyone that responded. I have looked into the woodmaster and although it seems like a great machine I am really just looking for a planer. The major selling point of the woodmaster seems to be that it can be a molder, Rip saw, and drum sander.

As far as grizzly goes I have talked to people that either swear by grizzly or swear they will never buy a grizzly again. The main reason I am hesitant is because my good friend that got me into woodworking has had two bad experiences with grizzly that I have seen first hand. Also they only offer a 1 year warranty. And on top of all that it would be a several month wait before I would be able to get a machine even if I wanted too.

Also although I am very intrigued by the laguna, Oliver, and baileigh, (especially the laguna) I have decided to stay away from those machines do to what seems to be a complete lack of information about them. IMO if these machines were as good or better than the other popular brands somebody somewhere would have some experience with them.

So that leaves the Jet and the Powermatic. They are within a couple hundred dollars of each other and both have a five year warranty. I was able to look at floor models of both of these machines and it really does look like I could take a part off the jet and bolt it right to the powermatic and never know the difference. But the powermatic has the actual Byrd head which makes me lean towards them.

Unfortunately neither is on sale right now. Going to try and find out if either will be offering a sale in the next couple of weeks if not it looks like I am just going to suck it up and get the powermatic.

Lesson learned don’t post your current planer until you know what your going to replace it with. If I would ha e waited till Father’s Day weekend I bet I could have gotten an extra 15% off. Ah well.

Thanks again. I will lost some pictures once it is up and running.

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View Sawdust35's profile

Sawdust35

68 posts in 1399 days


#15 posted 02-10-2018 02:38 PM

OP,
I bought the Jet 15HH in early March 2017. Rockler had a 10% off sale and I didn’t have to pay sales tax or shipping for lift gate service. I really like the surfacing quality and the power the machine has. At the time of purchase a woodcraft sales person told me Powermatic would not be offering discounts on their equipment any longer. Which is false based on the yearly Black Friday sales. If the Powermatic 15” shelix planer had been on sale I would have gone that route for the shelix head.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1461 posts in 1760 days


#16 posted 02-10-2018 04:44 PM

Not trying to be rude but it sounds like your research is a little superficial and not taking all the aspects of the machinery into account.

To say that Oliver is a brand that doesn’t have any information and therefore not a lot of user experience is very shortsighted. Oliver is a brand that is geared towards heavy industrial use. The reason you don’t see people talking about them is that production shops do not write reviews of their machinery or talk about them on hobby forums.

I would say that if you’re just a hobbyist, that Oliver is a brand that would be a lifetime purchase, but also might be more machine than you need. As for parts, they have been around since before the 1900s so I would say they probably have more duration than any of the other company you’re looking at.
Their price reflects that. Even used, on auction markets, a well used Oliver will fetch more money than a brand new Powermatic of the same size and class.

What it really boils down is what you plan to use it for. If you do want an item to last you 10 years and turn into a more business environment. If you’re wanting something to bridge hobby to more production, then get Powermatic. If you want production, then it’s Oliver or a European brand like SCMI or that class.
When you get into high production, there are many different brands that you more than likely have never heard of and I am still seeing new to me names as I browse industrial auction sites.

Again, not trying to be rude but I research machinery daily as I’m trying to refit my shop to do a lot more milling and rough lumber processing and I have been buying a lot of used industrial machinery that I refurbish and put to use.

Good luck, I hope you find something that will serve you well.

View MJCD's profile

MJCD

598 posts in 2908 days


#17 posted 02-10-2018 06:48 PM

I recently purchased the Oliver Oscillating Spindle Sander (#6910), and it is a very capable machine – clearly aimed at the buy-once market. This machine is the current version of ‘old-iron’. It looks similar to the Baileigh, but the running gear is top-notch – I balanced a Penny on-edge, on the table, and started the sander – the penny continued on-edge, as I sanded some walnut… Also, I found the Customer Service top-notch (the shipped damaged the first machine, and Oliver air-freighted another machine from Seattle to Baltimore.

The Oliver planer comes with a Byrd Shieldex cutter.

Having said this, I’m not a fan of Jet equipment – I’ve been on the receiving end of some crappy stuff. Laguna has a poor Customer Service reputation. I would opt for either the Powermatic or the Oliver.

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#18 posted 02-10-2018 10:49 PM

AZ Woody, First off I work at a prison so if you think that anything you said was rude you have to work on your rudeness. And I will agree with you that I have limited my reasearch somewhat. But as I stated I assumed that I would have sometime before my current planer sold. I but I guess that is what happens when you assume!!!! But I think you may be confused when I talk about Oliver. I am a beginner when it comes to
Woodworking and although I have seen some of the “old iron” machines unfortunately I have no where near the space or the electrical capacity that is required of those machines. When I speak of Oliver I am talking about there new 4420 16” planer. If you have Craigslist you can see one for sale in Ithaca New York for around $2000. So you are not correct when you say a used Oliver cost more than a new powermatic. There prices for a new machine are actually very close. I believe they started to manufacture these machines in the late 2000’s. Maybe 2008??? IMO these machines are not designed for a huge production shop. I think they are targeting the hobbiest or smaller one man shops. Which would lead me to believe that this website and others like it would be the best place to get information on them. There price point is not that different than Powermatic or Laguna or baileigh. And when I ask if they will still be around I am not asking so much if Oliver will still be around. I am wondering if that particular model will still be around. And if they are not selling a ton of those machines one would think that they might decided they are better off sticking with the industrial equipment. I think delta is a prime example. Delta has been around since the early 1900’s as well but if I needed a part for my planer or any other Delta machine that wasn’t built in the best 3-5 years I and everyone else is out of luck. They are now focusing on bench top machines and besides the unisaw I don’t even know what other bigger machinery they even make anymore.

So not to defend myself but for what I am looking for I do believe I am looking in the right spots. I understand that minimax and other machines like that while probably way better than the machines I mentioned are both out of my price range and would be a huge over kill for what I am doing. But I am reaching out on this website to learn. Despite my wise crack quote I am far from a know it all. I realize that in the grand scheme of things I know very little. I am trying to reach out to people like you and others that have years of experience working with these machines and can tell me there opinions. So maybe I can avoid a mistake that someone else has already made.

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#19 posted 02-10-2018 10:56 PM

Mjcd,
Thanks that’s just the kind of info I am looking for. As someone stated before it seems like no matter what the brand someone will have either a good or bad experience with them. Jet grizzly Powermatic etc all have there lovers and there haters. I guess what it comes down to for me is that when and if something does go wrong how does the company handle it. Air freighting a replacement to you with little to no hassle at all is the kind of stuff I want to hear!!!!

Thanks again!!!!

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View MJCD's profile

MJCD

598 posts in 2908 days


#20 posted 02-11-2018 02:32 AM

Trout:

To expand a bit… Oliver takes photos of their equipment & packaging prior to shipment; and they sent it to me. When the package arrived, and photos on my end taken, it was clear that the freight company messed-up. Oliver didn’t miss a step; no need for me to ask or beg; no heroics on their part, other than getting me a new machine, pronto. Also, it helps that the machine is spot-on industrial-grade – the 70lb table top was finely machined, and flat across its 27” surface.

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#21 posted 02-11-2018 02:43 AM

Mjcd,
Can I ask where you actually purchased your machine? Was it directly through Oliver? Or through a distributor? If through a distributor were they the ones that were spot on or was it actually Oliver that you were dealing with? For example when I bought my table saw the fence system was damaged while being shipped. In the end I was compensated with what I asked for. (Superficial damage only) I never actally dealt with Saw Stop. Acme tools where I purchased it from was who I had to deal with.

Thanks
Trout

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View MJCD's profile

MJCD

598 posts in 2908 days


#22 posted 02-11-2018 05:54 PM

Oliver works through manufacturer’s reps, as they’re called. In this case, it is the Wurth Wood Group. They provide sales and service to professional cabinet and millwork shops, and rarely have an occasion to deal with an individual woodworker. They’re not adverse to it, it’s just not where they spend their time. I knew of Wurth from my overseas days, in Europe – they have a large global organization; and they focus on industrial equipment (SCM …), and supplies related to the wood industry. In this situation, Wurth was the primary contact, and worked directly with Oliver – I was copied on several e-mail threads between them. Oliver called me directly, to assure me they would take care of it, and sent me the pre-shipment photos I mentioned.

My work places heavy demand on a spindle sander – I burned through 3 of the Rigid units in 5 years (a very good value all-in-all); and I have about 10 hours on the Oliver at this point – as I said, it is a very capable machine… and expensive in the short-term.

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#23 posted 02-19-2018 05:40 PM

Well after much research and debate I pulled the trigger on the Oliver 4420. Although there is a shortage of reviews about the planer every person I talked to had nothing but great things to say about Oliver in general. Now I understand that they are not the American made Oliver of old but as far as four post planers go I honestly believe that this machine is at the top of its class. I will give a detailed review and post pictures as soon as possible. Thank you to everyone for you help.

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View Mike_in_STL's profile

Mike_in_STL

1057 posts in 1070 days


#24 posted 02-19-2018 06:07 PM

+1 on the Oliver. That thing reminds me of the ancient Delta I used in high school. That thing was a beast. I look forward to your review.

-- Sawdust makes me whole --Mike in STL

View Itownrocks's profile

Itownrocks

5 posts in 824 days


#25 posted 02-20-2018 02:39 AM

I don’t know if you are in ct or Ithaca ny, but a few mins away in newfield is this fine specimen:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/506275.html

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#26 posted 02-20-2018 02:49 AM

Yes I have seen it. Actually I even talked to the guy but he is just to far away. Your talking 10-12 hours round trip maybe more depending on traffic. Plus I would want to rent a home depot truck or something inclosed just in case the weather goes to crap on me. And that’s just driving time. I would have to load it and such as well. Now your talking the possibility of even having to get a room somewhere. I drove 18hrs straight one time in my younger days and swore I would never do it again. I really fought with it in my mind. I even priced out what it would cost to get it shipped but he wasn’t interested in crating it up. But regardless thanks for the info. It would have been nice to get one at that price. Someone is going to end up with a good used machine.

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

View Trout121180's profile

Trout121180

44 posts in 644 days


#27 posted 03-02-2018 02:41 AM

Here it is!!!!! I will have a review of the Oliver 4420 shortly. Thanks for all the help!!!!

-- Luke “I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.” “If you wait till the last minute it only takes a minute.”

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