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View 12bar's profile

belt sander sanding problem

by 12bar
posted 01-19-2018 07:06 PM


27 replies so far

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1884 posts in 963 days


#1 posted 01-19-2018 07:11 PM



the wood bounces up or back

Not sure what that means. Pictures??

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#2 posted 01-19-2018 10:08 PM

I can not take a picture of the wood bouncing as I’m holding it at the time. Maybe if I had said it is like it is kicking back that might have helped.
It doesn’t just do it once but if I continue to hold the wood to the Abranet Mesh it continues to keep kicking back at me. It doesn’t kick back hard enough that I can’t hold it but it makes sanding quite difficult.
Where the Manual said there should not be more than 1/16 inch between the sanding table and the rotating Abtranet Mesh I have about 5/32 space. This space being from the end of the table with the miter slot in it to where the Abranet Mesh belt is rotating.
Hope that helps.
I’m also wondering if the kick back could be from the tape on the back of the Abranet Mesh but that seems to be the only thing that is holding the belt together.
U like most sanding belts there are no arrows on the inside of the belt to show which direction the belt should be put on for correct rotation.

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

2692 posts in 3281 days


#3 posted 01-19-2018 10:25 PM

Sounds to me that your fence is not 90 degrees to the belt. Check it. Try applying the wood to the sander , holding it above the fence.

-- No PHD just a DD214

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#4 posted 01-19-2018 11:02 PM

Edit (for another 60 minutes) I can not take a picture of the wood bouncing as I’m holding it at the time. Maybe if I had said it is like it is kicking back that might have helped.
It doesn’t just do it once but if I continue to hold the wood to the Abranet Mesh it continues to keep kicking back at me. It doesn’t kick back hard enough that I can’t hold it but it makes sanding quite difficult.
Where the Manual said there should not be more than 1/16 inch between the sanding table and the rotating Abtranet Mesh I have about 5/32 space. This space being from the end of the table with the miter slot in it to where the Abranet Mesh belt is rotating.
Hope that helps.
I’m also wondering if the kick back could be from the tape on the back of the Abranet Mesh but that seems to be the only thing that is holding the belt together.
U like most sanding belts there are no arrows on the inside of the belt to show which direction the belt should be put on for correct rotation.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5675 posts in 2080 days


#5 posted 01-19-2018 11:03 PM

^ +1, Take the belt off and make sure the table is 90° to the platen.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#6 posted 01-19-2018 11:31 PM

Checked trying to hold the wood off the table and it still kicked back and there is like a slapping sound. Also checked the table to square with the sanding base plate which the Abranet Mesh rides on . Using a square against my Incra miter Fence and table with the square to the the plate over which the Abranet rides and it is square. I have 5/32 space on each end between the ends of the table and the belt.
So maybe the problem is the space between the table and the belt since it said it shouldn’t be more than 1/16 of an inch. However that doesn’t explain why I get a pushing back and forth and a slapping sound when I try holding the wood to the belt above the table.
Just has me stumped completely.
Maybe I should try a regular type of 6×48 sanding belt. When I got the belt sander the belt on it was shot so I changed it to an Abranet Mesh belt and immediately starting having this problem.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

22755 posts in 3043 days


#7 posted 01-19-2018 11:47 PM

The “slapping” sound is the joint in the paper…..

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#8 posted 01-19-2018 11:49 PM

Sounds like a bad belt. The distance from the fence/table to the belt should not make any difference. Hold a gauge off the table to the belt and see what kind of measurements you get as you turn it by hand. It should be fairly uniform without much deviation. If you get a large deviation at any one point – that will do it.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View LesB's profile

LesB

2075 posts in 3802 days


#9 posted 01-20-2018 12:03 AM

I think I know the “bounce” or chatter you are talking about. I get it occasionally on my sander and it occurs mostly when I’m sanding end grain or a combination of end and long grain. I can over come it by bringing the piece slowly but firmly into contact with the belt. I do not use a fence which can also contribute to the chatter by creating a bit of a pinching affect, especially if the piece is not resting evenly and firmly on the belt.

-- Les B, Oregon

View Richard Lee's profile

Richard Lee

239 posts in 1134 days


#10 posted 01-20-2018 12:06 AM

Belt running the right direction ?

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

2692 posts in 3281 days


#11 posted 01-20-2018 01:22 AM

Belt tension enough?

-- No PHD just a DD214

View alittleoff's profile

alittleoff

541 posts in 1636 days


#12 posted 01-20-2018 01:46 AM

However that doesn’t explain why I get a pushing back and forth and a slapping sound when I try holding the wood to the belt above the table.

Sounds like your not laying it flat on a table. If your holding it off the table in your hands and it’s not striaght and level it will kick back at you, up, or sideways depending on how your holding it.
Gerald

View DMiller's profile

DMiller

490 posts in 832 days


#13 posted 01-20-2018 02:14 AM



I have a Grizzly 6×48 belt and disk sander that I acquired a while ago. I put Abranet 120 grit paper on the belt and am having a problem when I put the piece of wood up to the sanding paper. The sander is vertical if that makes a difference. When I start to bring the wood in contact the wood bounces up or back . So it is not running smoothly. I am not pushing with any force into the belt.

I went to Abranet Mesh because while taking a luthier course on building an acoustic guitar there was very little dust and the finish on things like braces were ready to be cemented to the backs and top.

In reviewing the manual the only thing I can see that might have anything to do with the problem is one section talked about there being no more than 1/16 of between the belt and the table which the wood is resting on. It said if there was more than the 1/16 of an inch there was “a risk of in-running NIP (pinch) points .

What does this mean? Further, can folks suggest what my problem might be and what I might do about it as I really like the Abranet Mesh sanding belts that I have used on another luthiers 6×48 belt sander.

Thank you for any suggestions you may have.
12 Bar

- 12bar

I do a decent amount of sanding with my 4×24 clamped to a table; every so often I have the wood “bounce back” because I wasn’t applying enough force, and/or the sander has begun rocking on the table (if I am understanding your problem correctly). DO you happen to have a new belt, that is not abranet to try and see if it is user mistake, bad sandpaper, or a problem with the machine? Whenever I have had this problem, I have found I just wasn’t pushing hard enough against the sander with the wood. This is the best explanation I have, hope I am understanding the problem correctly. Hope this helps, Dale.

-- Dale Miller Modesto, CA "I can do all things through Christ, which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13. "Woodworking minus patience equals firewood."

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#14 posted 01-20-2018 03:02 AM



Checked trying to hold the wood off the table and it still kicked back and there is like a slapping sound. Also checked the table to square with the sanding base plate which the Abranet Mesh rides on . Using a square against my Incra miter Fence and table with the square to the the plate over which the Abranet rides and it is square. I have 5/32 space on each end between the ends of the table and the belt.
So maybe the problem is the space between the table and the belt since it said it shouldn’t be more than 1/16 of an inch. However that doesn’t explain why I get a pushing back and forth and a slapping sound when I try holding the wood to the belt above the table.
Just has me stumped completely.
Maybe I should try a regular type of 6×48 sanding belt. When I got the belt sander the belt on it was shot so I changed it to an Abranet Mesh belt and immediately starting having this problem.

- 12bar


View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#15 posted 01-20-2018 03:07 AM

There are no arrows as to how the Mesh should turn. I did try reversing it and it is still doing the same thing.
Also makes no difference is how softly I put the wood up to the belt. Once it touches the belt the slapping, pushing back from the belt, whatever we call it is still the same.
Tomorrow I will try a regular belt and I will also measure the belt by turning it by hand and see if it could be the tape that holds the belt together.
Thanks for all the suggestions but nothing so far seems to be the problem that I have tried.

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5964 posts in 2768 days


#16 posted 01-20-2018 03:10 AM

Check to see the front non drive wheel in the front is moving freely. Over time dust gets into the axle and gums up slowing the pulley to a crawl if it works at all. Fairly simple to remove and just clean out the pulley sleeve and then the axle itself. Use some oil and put it back together.

May not be what is wrong but I have fixed several for friends with various issues and this was a common problem.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

22755 posts in 3043 days


#17 posted 01-20-2018 03:11 AM

May also be too coarse of a grit, for the job? Try a fine grit and see….instead of an “80” use a 120?

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View BandsawJeff's profile

BandsawJeff

52 posts in 560 days


#18 posted 01-20-2018 04:21 AM

Sounds to me like you need to pimp your belt sander!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYliAXWul4

Maybe graphite clothe would help alleviate the problem? Make less friction between the belt and platen? Just a thought :)

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#19 posted 01-20-2018 04:50 AM

I have 120 grit Abranet Mesh on. I have never put 80 grit on so that can not be the problem.
I will check the the non drive wheel tomorrow but I did spin it when I tried reversing the belt. The wheel spun fine but I will take another look at it tomorrow morning.
Thanks everybody.

Tomorrow I am going to put a regular belt on and if every works fine the gentleman who mentioned I might have a bad sandbelt may be exactly what it is. . I never heard of a bad belt . I will also measure the belt to table distances as I turn the belt by hand and see if there is any spot where there is a significant difference.

View IantheTinker's profile

IantheTinker

282 posts in 486 days


#20 posted 01-20-2018 05:01 AM

Sorry if anyone else already asked, but are you sanding end grain or angling the wood to be in opposition to the direction the sandpaper is being driven? That is the only situation I have experienced bounce back when using a belt sander.

-- opiningminnesotan.com

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#21 posted 01-20-2018 06:10 AM

It doesn’t make any difference how I touch the wood to the belt. I tried end grain and thought that could be a problem so I then tried it with the grain. I tried both thin and thick pieces. I have tried both soft and hardwood. The wood or how it is oriented does not appear to make any difference to the slapping or nocking or vibration or pushing back that I get. It doesn’t make any different how I touch the wood to the belt.
As I said I will check the wheels tomorrow , I will measure the distance between the belt and table when the belt is turned by my hand to see if there is s difference at any point and I will put a different type of belt on tomorrow and see if the problem goes away which would suggest it is the Abranet Mesh itself is the problem.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 863 days


#22 posted 01-20-2018 10:47 AM

It’s bouncing because it’s not sliding across the surface to sand. Mesh belts are “grabby” when they are brand new…suggest you remove the table or fence, lay the belt down so you are sanding horizontal and take a nice size piece of some kind of hardwood, oak maybe maple and lay it flat on the running belt as if you were face sanding the whole board. Scrub it back and forth to help “break in” and put a little time on the mesh belt. You will have to really hang on to it so it sands instead of just bouncing. This should help it to not be so grabby on the wood. Don’t scrub on it too long or you will just wear out the new belt.

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#23 posted 01-29-2018 06:18 AM

I haven’t been able to get back in the shop but the more I think about it I think it most likely is the piece that is holding the belt together that is causing me the bounce. I will put it in the horizontal position and take the table off as is suggested.
When doing this do I need a piece of wood that will cover the whole length and width , just the width or will any hardwood size work?
Thanks again -2 bar

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 863 days


#24 posted 01-29-2018 01:04 PM

Any hardwood size will work. You just need something that’s a comfortable size for you to hang onto. Too small and it wont really be effective, it will be slow. End grain white oak will work pretty quick, you want to “challenge” the belt with something hard and tough to sand. Too big and you cant wrap your hands around it to hang on. You should be able to feel when the belt breaks in and eases up on being so grabby. Do not be surprised if it seems like it doesn’t take much at all, you don’t want to wear the belt out, just break it in. All this is assuming this is the problem to begin with, but I have never seen anything else cause bounce on a belt sander.
You can also do something similar to help “sharpen” up a belt after it gets really dull. Just use the edge of a piece of steel and run it across the belt as the sander is running. One or two passes is all it takes. Doesn’t make a worn out belt new, but it will break up the grit and get a little more life out of it. The difference here is that you wont be able to feel it changing the belt, but you wont need to scrub on it either, just a pass or two. The heavier the grit the more pressure it will require to break up the dead grit and get a fresh “edge” on it. Not too much pressure when doing this with mesh. Best of luck.

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#25 posted 01-30-2018 05:06 AM

I didn’t have any white oak but used red oak which was 2” thick 6 inches long and 6 inches wide. I used the end grain and after I had the end grain piece down to4 1/2 inches inlength and 3 inches wide I am still having the bouncing. I broke the belt almost immediately as I forgot to take off the table. I then took the table off and kept doing the end grain till I had sanded 1 1/2 inches away. I then put it with the grain and sanded about 2 inches off the side. While it helped as the is less bouncing I am still having some bouncing. It doesn’t seem to make any difference whether I push harder than I normally would whet I was sanding or if I sand it very lightly. When sanded lightly there is less bounce but there is still bounce. I also tried adjusting the table, once I put it back on so that I have about 1/32 of space between the belt and the table as the manual said to have no more than a 1/16.
So I am still stumped. I’m hoping there are some other suggestions as I just bought 4 more Abranet Max Mesh belts and I don’t want to waist them.
Should I continue doing more sanding with the table off and in the horizontal position as it did help?
The belt tracks well and it doesn’t seem to have to much slop in the belt or be to tight.
Thanks for your continued assistance. I’m just completely stumped as to what the problem is and therefore I don’t know what the problem could be or how to eliminate the bounce. 12 bar

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 863 days


#26 posted 01-30-2018 12:22 PM

Well, it sure sounds like that belt, that machine and what it is you want to sand are just not going to get along. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but maybe at this point try a regular belt and see if the bouncing stops. If so then I think you might need to call the manufacturer of the belt and speak to them. Maybe there are sanders that are better suited to this type belt?? I have never heard of any, but the belt maker would/should know. This may be a dumb question at this point, but is this belt intended to be used on a regular belt sander or some special different design type? Wish I had better info. I know the mesh is grabby, but I didn’t think it would prevent you from using it.

View 12bar's profile

12bar

25 posts in 887 days


#27 posted 01-31-2018 11:32 PM

I know the luthier that I studied with had two 6 inch belt sander.. One was a Jet and the other was a Grizzly like I have. He was running Abranet Max belts on both machines. So I’m quite sure, having used both 6 inch sanders in both vertical and horizontal positions that the Abranet Max Mesh belts should run fine.
I tried another 120 grit belt and I have the same problem.

I tried to call Mirka who makes or imports the Mirka Abranet Max Mesh belts and they were closed. They are on the east coast and I am on the west coast. I will try contacting them again.

I will be with the luthier that I took my acoustic guitar building class from hopefully net week and I will ask him about the problem also.

I am thinking of taking off the belt or another abrnet mesh belt and suing my steam iron on the tape to see if I can decrease the thickness. I use the iron for putting on veneer so I am wondering if I could soften the glue and see if I would spread the glue a bit further. Just an idea as I am stumped.

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