LumberJocks

All Replies on Terrible experience with SCM Group .. what to do?

  • Advertise with us
View mbach123's profile

Terrible experience with SCM Group .. what to do?

by mbach123
posted 01-18-2018 03:39 PM


1 2 3 4 next »
155 replies

155 replies so far

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

489 posts in 741 days


#1 posted 01-18-2018 03:55 PM

Do you have proof that they would take care of any shipping claims?

Why did you accept the shipment? Something that large would have had to come by LTL freight, so it’s not something that would have been left on your doorstep.

Just playing devil’s advocate, sorry to hear about the situation.

View jerkylips's profile

jerkylips

495 posts in 2929 days


#2 posted 01-18-2018 03:55 PM

My thought is that no sales person is going to say, “sure, we’ll send you out a new $9000 unit – expect it tomorrow!” To me, the response that they are going to investigate with the shipping company and get back to you is acceptable for an immediate response. If the shipping company is at fault, they SHOULD be responsible for the costs. I would give the salesperson/CEO a chance to investigate the situation and respond back before gettting too worked up. If they come back to you with their answer and that’s not acceptable to you, then that’s a different story.

View Fred Hargis's profile (online now)

Fred Hargis

5500 posts in 2852 days


#3 posted 01-18-2018 04:07 PM

I think SCM is a reputable company who won’t leave there customers hanging. I would start going up the ladder, possibly by asking company headquarters who you should talk to next. This is a real sad situation, please keep us informed.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8637 posts in 2936 days


#4 posted 01-18-2018 04:29 PM

Pictures please.

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

505 posts in 2091 days


#5 posted 01-18-2018 04:29 PM

I feel for you. I’m always a little anxious about buying something big and heavy like a woodworking machine or air compressor that gets delivered to my house by freight truck. If there is some damage or problem everyone wants to pass the buck to someone else and it could be very expensive and/or difficult to return the item. It’s very frustrating as a consumer, but I understand why the sellers/distributors do this—any additional interaction with the customer after the sale (for that sale) is likely going to cost the company and/or distributor money (time=money). I don’t like it, but I understand their position. Excellent customer service does not always translate into repeat customers.

When I’m in this type of situation I try to remind myself to be courteous and respectful to anyone that I interact with related to this transaction. The problems you are experiencing are likely not their direct fault and/or they are there to try and help you or provide you with information.

Have you contacted the shipping company? If so, are they willing to do anything? What is their position on the damage and their culpability?

Did you buy directly from SCM or through a distributor? Is there a warranty on the damaged J/P?

You should document everything you have done so far and include photos in the documentation. If you decide to contact a lawyer or get the opportunity to make a plea to someone like the CEO—then having all the information documented in chronological order will help them understand what transpired.

Good luck and I’ll be hoping for a positive outcome for you.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1223 posts in 1853 days


#6 posted 01-18-2018 04:57 PM

Sorry to read about issues?

IME – Damaged freight shipments via commercial carrier are painful.

First – Do not shoot messenger: The company selling the product damaged in transport typically has no liability on paper; Regardless of what they say. They delivered the product to the shipping company they picked, which you agreed to use when you signed the purchase contract. So the damage dispute is between you and shipping carrier.
if you signed for the damaged shipment and accepted delivery (fine print always says you inspected and found in satisfactory condition), then need to follow instructions from SCM: file a damage claim with transportation carrier!

Process to correct hidden “accidental” shipping damage is sort of like being in an automobile accident?
IE – No one wants to admit there is a problem, nor pay for the mistake, and there is lots of paperwork and delays figuring out what went wrong (while trying to avoid fraud).
So only after the trucking companies insurance has reviewed the damage/loss, determined corrective measures, and approved payment; will the equipment supplier be paid to correct the problem.

Highly suggest making a face to face visit to trucking companies local terminal for quickest turn around on a claim. Phone calls seem to fall on deaf ears, unless you are regular customer for carrier.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#7 posted 01-18-2018 04:58 PM

The equipment needed to remain in the packaging to get it home.

The CEO did reply to me after I asked for assistance and stated that they were “not sparing any effort resolving the issue”. I hope that means they are going to take care of the situation. That’s all I really want to hear but they have immediately put the burden on me to work it out with the shipping company.

They are able to file a claim unlike me according to the shipping company. I immediately provided a report to the shipping company with pictures. I have stated and have supported their efforts for a claim.

We shall see.

View tealetm's profile

tealetm

104 posts in 1217 days


#8 posted 01-18-2018 05:43 PM

If you paid on you credit card, report it to them and stop payment. Once that happens people tend to move faster towards a resolution.

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#9 posted 01-18-2018 07:31 PM

Why on earth did you accept delivery of something that is damaged? If you get a freight delivery, you should inspect the thing six ways from Sunday to make sure it’s in good shape. If it isn’t, you refuse the deliver and they take it away.

If it didn’t come off the truck on its side and damaged-looking, what happened in between when it did come off the truck and the picture?

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#10 posted 01-18-2018 07:34 PM

I wasn’t aware of the damage. The packaging concealed the damage.
It was only after getting it home did I unpackage it to see it on its side.
For whatever reason it was not delivered to my home and instead I had to pick it up from the distribution center at the freight company. When I discovered it was being sent to a location 2 hours away I petitioned the person sending it and was told “that’s something you should have worked out with your salesperson.” So I went with the flow.


Why on earth did you accept delivery of something that is damaged? If you get a freight delivery, you should inspect the thing six ways from Sunday to make sure it s in good shape. If it isn t, you refuse the deliver and they take it away.

If it didn t come off the truck on its side and damaged-looking, what happened in between when it did come off the truck and the picture?

- jonah


View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1262 posts in 1268 days


#11 posted 01-18-2018 07:39 PM



If you paid on you credit card, report it to them and stop payment. Once that happens people tend to move faster towards a resolution.

- tealetm


Exactly what I was going to suggest. If you paid via AmEx, or some other major CC, call SCM and tell them that either they make it right by yesterday or you will immediately tell the CC company to stop payment.

That’ll light a fire under their butts, I guarantee you.

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#12 posted 01-18-2018 07:41 PM

CC is now in dispute with the hope of using it as leverage towards a fair resolution.

View Steve's profile

Steve

1216 posts in 942 days


#13 posted 01-18-2018 09:00 PM

Definitely an unfortunate event. But the fact that you signed for it and accepted it from the shipping company is going to making things more complicated than they should be. You should have opened it there to inspect it. Technically, I can see where you could be stuck with the damaged machine because who’s to say that it happened during the initial shipping? Not saying that’s the case, but SCM and the shipping company could potentially say you damaged it while hauling it two hours.

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#14 posted 01-18-2018 09:22 PM

bndawgs, valid point.
You’re not allowed to unpack items at the dock. I noted the packaging and took photos at the time of pick up. There are also laws that deal with this specific issue where the lack of unpacking doesn’t make you automatically responsible for undiscovered damage.

The specific activity of re-packaging the item during shipment according to SCM tells the story of what happened.

If this were delivered to my home a lack of inspection would be a different story.

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16104 posts in 2978 days


#15 posted 01-18-2018 09:23 PM



I wasn t aware of the damage. The packaging concealed the damage.
It was only after getting it home did I unpackage it to see it on its side.
For whatever reason it was not delivered to my home and instead I had to pick it up from the distribution center at the freight company. When I discovered it was being sent to a location 2 hours away I petitioned the person sending it and was told “that s something you should have worked out with your salesperson.” So I went with the flow. truck on its side and damaged-looking, what happened in between when it did come off the truck and the picture?

Theory: The shipper knew it wasn’t right, and avoided delivery to your door knowing you’d reject it there and they’d be stuck driving it back to the warehouse. Instead, they reduced cost by having you come for it. Then you (mistakenly) signed for it and took it off their hands anyway! First laughs are theirs, but yes, they have to make it right. What a PITA.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View Hammerthumb's profile

Hammerthumb

2939 posts in 2334 days


#16 posted 01-18-2018 10:30 PM

If the vendor had contracted the freight company, the responsibility is on them. If you arranged the freight and paid the freight company directly, then you would need to take up the issue with the freight company.
I agree with Smitty. If the vendor had promised door to door delivery of the item, I would not have gone to pick it up. Especially since it was 2 hrs away. There will now be a question of when the item got damaged. In transport to the LTL facility, or on the way to your house.

-- Paul, Duvall, WA

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#17 posted 01-18-2018 10:52 PM

Hi Paul,

SCM made all the shipping arrangements.

SCM didn’t back out of door to door delivery; it was conveyed to me by SCM shipping department that I would have to go to a distant location for pickup with a too late now tone.

Due to the condition of the re-packaging there has not be any question damage occurred before I picked up the equipment. Had I recognized the equipment had been re-packaged I would not have accepted it.


If the vendor had contracted the freight company, the responsibility is on them. If you arranged the freight and paid the freight company directly, then you would need to take up the issue with the freight company.
I agree with Smitty. If the vendor had promised door to door delivery of the item, I would not have gone to pick it up. Especially since it was 2 hrs away. There will now be a question of when the item got damaged. In transport to the LTL facility, or on the way to your house.

- Hammerthumb


View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12772 posts in 2739 days


#18 posted 01-18-2018 11:01 PM

I would not have disputed the card except as a last resort, it often prompts a hostile relationship between you and the vendor. The credit card company may require all go-between to be in writing which will add weeks to a resolution. SCM could take a hardline that you received the machine in good order and it was damaged by you. And if the shipper agrees and has your signature, it will now be on you to prove that you did not damage the machine while transporting it yourself. EDIT, you posted while I was posting. It’s good you got pictures and documented they rewrapped the machine, that plays in your favor.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#19 posted 01-18-2018 11:13 PM

Hi Rick,

The relationship went sideways when Sam, my salesperson, threatened to hang up on me when I called him out on SCM’s unacceptable response to burden me with working it out with the shipping company. Only after specifically calling out the CEO to help and btw the CEO was on the previous email chains did I hear anything different than work it out with the shipping company.
BTW the security cameras at my home will show that when I unboxed the J/P it was on its side. Again SCM does not dispute that I received the equipment in a damaged state. I have ample photos showing incongruity with their stated shipping practice at the time I picked up the equipment.

View Knockonit's profile

Knockonit

541 posts in 561 days


#20 posted 01-19-2018 12:38 AM

Seems Sam , might need a moment of humility training.
email crusade. i say, sent it out, lets see an address and let him know the potential damage in sales he is or could cause by being a do….bag

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 951 days


#21 posted 01-19-2018 12:41 AM

Unfortunately there is very little you can do.
I was in a similar situation. The company knowingly shipped badly damaged equipment repackaging it in new boxes before shipping. foolishly I accepted the delivery based on the state of the packaging and was never been able to make the merchant do right.
It was expensive and I contacted a lawyer, who advise that I would easily win a lawsuit. The money to pay for the lawsuit were about $10000.
But all I would get from the lawsuit is a piece of paper that says the merchant owns me money, with no means to actually collect.
A credit card company could be of some help but they often require you to send it back for your own money.
If you are in the samestate as the merchant you can file a small court case, which is cheap , but see above.
And legally and sadly the shipping risk is on the buyer not the seller.
Did you contact the shipping company?

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#22 posted 01-19-2018 01:20 AM

The value of the machine takes it out of small claims territory (at least in every state I’ve lived in). In most states, the cutoff there is ~$1000. Higher than that value and you have to file a normal lawsuit (which costs thousands of dollars for a lawyer to prepare), not a very easy small claims court suit which you can do in plain language in twenty minutes.

I’d agree that disputing the charge with the credit card company should be the last resort. I’d save that for if nothing else worked, otherwise things will escalate very quickly.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 951 days


#23 posted 01-19-2018 01:34 AM

^^^^^
Small Claims Court Limits for the 50 States* $10,000, except that a plaintiff may not file a claim over $2,500 more than twice a year.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 863 days


#24 posted 01-19-2018 03:02 AM

Who or what exactly is this SCM outfit??? If you don’t mind my asking…so I don’t make the mistake of dealing with them…I’ve heard enough.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 951 days


#25 posted 01-19-2018 04:19 AM

Do you think that Sam have any personal interest in not dealing with the issue? Usually it is the company’s policy to screw the customer and get as much profits as they can now.

Reminds me of Sprint cellphone company whose every single employee seemed to have a goal to cheat you for a few more $$$


Seems Sam , might need a moment of humility training.
email crusade. i say, sent it out, lets see an address and let him know the potential damage in sales he is or could cause by being a do….bag

- Knockonit


View Knockonit's profile

Knockonit

541 posts in 561 days


#26 posted 01-19-2018 01:27 PM

I suspect the salemans does have sway, especially if he is a top seller, if not then no fowl, but being on his case would enlist his attention to truth the next time he sells something with an empty promise. Not a fan of allowing mistakes or stupid comments to go unnoticed, if allowed, then they become common, instead of occassional.
jmo
be a slacker if one chooses, ok with me
Rj in az


Do you think that Sam have any personal interest in not dealing with the issue? Usually it is the company’s policy to screw the customer and get as much profits as they can now.

Reminds me of Sprint cellphone company whose every single employee seemed to have a goal to cheat you for a few more $$$

Seems Sam , might need a moment of humility training.
email crusade. i say, sent it out, lets see an address and let him know the potential damage in sales he is or could cause by being a do….bag

- Knockonit

- Carloz


View MJCD's profile

MJCD

589 posts in 2730 days


#27 posted 01-19-2018 01:44 PM

SCM is one of the largest woodworking machinery manufacturers in the world… simply stated. An Italian company, they are worldwide. Their heavy-industrial line is the SCM brand; their light-industrial brand is Minimax – which is still considered several steps above Powermatic. Minimax competes well against Felder – for Jointer/Planers, Sliding Table Saws, Shapers – and other top-tier brands. Their MM16 is considered one of the best Bandsaws made. With this, SCM should be quick to support your interests, and complaint.

‘Sam’s’ actions should be near-firing material: SCM doesn’t want this bad press; the machine cost is insignificant to them; whereas, the bad press is potentially big lost dollars. I agree with going above the corporate ladder, now, and be polite, be pointed, be aggressive about it.

SCM chose the shipping company, and paid them – a contractual relationship. Be Aggressive.

MJCD

View Marlow's profile

Marlow

182 posts in 3030 days


#28 posted 01-19-2018 02:48 PM

Might help if you posted some of the pictures you took at time of pickup.

View Smirak's profile

Smirak

97 posts in 878 days


#29 posted 01-19-2018 03:20 PM

My two cents as a Supply Chain Manager…

It really depends on what your purchase contract/purchase order/etc with SCM stated. Was door to door delivery negotiated and signed for by both parties? If so, I’d start there and ask why door to door delivery was not provided. If not, what was agreed to by both parties. If you were charged for door to door delivery and were “forced” to pick up at a local terminal (regardless of the distance traveled), you should argue that first. Now, I can argue that SCM will tell you it didn’t leave their warehouse in that condition and you have no proof to refute their argument. Your only recourse right now is with the shipping company. That said, what did your contract say on Incoterms? How was it supposed to be shipped (FOB, FCA, EXW, etc…)? If I knew the incoterms it was to be shipped against, I can help you with the liability and when/who accepts when/where…

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#30 posted 01-19-2018 05:18 PM

I was not forced to pickup from terminal but rather it was unclear to me where I need to get the equipment.

I’ve attached a photo from the dock. I inspected the parcel as stated without opening and noted the condition on the paperwork; if this were a home delivery I could have opened the box and would have rejected the parcel.

View OnhillWW's profile

OnhillWW

184 posts in 1591 days


#31 posted 01-19-2018 05:25 PM

I have S & R experience and my deepest sympathies go with the OP.

That said, just a heads up to all who may travel down a similar path – like it or not , 99.9 % of the time the liability for damage goes to the shipper BUT once you sign and accept the delivery you own it. You can’t make the seller responsible for shipping mishaps. You HAVE to inspect the shipment, ANYTHING that looks awry such as two types of shrink wrap, a damaged pallet, parts not sitting square to the pallet, punctured or crushed boxes is cause to reject the shipment. Even if you went and picked it up the same rules apply. Sometimes you can sign the receipt documents with a note describing a concern that you see and this gives you some standing to make a claim after the fact or as we did many times we told the driver we would not receive the shipment w/o opening and inspecting the contents. More often than not they would agree to this.

I am not unsympathetic to the OP but I’m afraid it’s the rules of the road. Just as if a giant tree from your neighbors property falls onto your property, whatever sits on your property is 100% YOUR responsibility, clean up damage et.al Doesn’t feel fair but it’s the way it goes.

-- Cheap is expensive! - my Dad

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#32 posted 01-19-2018 05:30 PM

Found some shipping docs..
I got this documentation two+ weeks after I paid. They only sent it to me when they shipped out the equipment.

SUBJECT: SCM SHIPING GUIDELINES
We at SCM Group North America strive to provide the best possible care to our customers during shipment of
our machines.
Effective, 4/1/17, all LTL shipments are FOB Origin (Carson/Duluth) and NOT delivered unless specified on the
Machinery Acquisition Agreement (MAA) or sales contract. This will pertain mainly to dealer orders.
You will now be able to utilize your own carrier or may continue to use SCM preferred carrier. If using your
own, an appointment is required for pickup with minimum 24-48 hour notice. Request for pickup must be
provided in writing before 12 noon EST to allow for processing and a copy of your carrier’s Bill of Lading.
Logistics will then schedule the appointment and provide a pickup number. Failure to have pickup number can
result in a refusal of the pickup.
The following information provides an explanation of freight terms in the below diagram. SCM will no longer
assume risk (except where indicated below). If Receiver assumes risk, claim is filed by receiver after
notification. See additional details below.

View John_'s profile

John_

197 posts in 2065 days


#33 posted 01-19-2018 06:22 PM



SCM is one of the largest woodworking machinery manufacturers in the world… simply stated. An Italian company, they are worldwide. Their heavy-industrial line is the SCM brand; their light-industrial brand is Minimax – which is still considered several steps above Powermatic. Minimax competes well against Felder – for Jointer/Planers, Sliding Table Saws, Shapers – and other top-tier brands. Their MM16 is considered one of the best Bandsaws made. With this, SCM should be quick to support your interests, and complaint.

^^^^^ This

I posted in the “Hammer K3 Winner, PM2000 or Sawstop?” thread that I had problems when I bought a machine from MiniMax. It was one of their combination machines (sliding table saw, shaper, jointer/planer) and upon delivery, I discovered the shaper spindle/cartridge was actually rusted in place. It would not move and my salesman (not Sam) wanted me to get a bottle jack and force the spindle up! I sent then numerous pics of that and some other problems, their support was not much help and I finally reached out to their then CEO Michael Kahn who has since moved on. One of the first things I did was file a dispute with my credit card and why I told my salesman this he basically threatened me that he would have SMC legal contact me….

I am sure you are very upset right now (as I was) but it worked out in the long run. Make a very comprehensive list of everything that was damaged, and also include that the jointer tables are going to need to be checked or adjusted. Give them 30 days to make it right, which is reasonable, but they will never be able to meet that deadline because in reality, some of the parts are going to have to be shipped from Italy. Also keep in mind that when you buy an industrial machine like this – your probably going to have to do all the labor yourself, unless you live very close to one of their service centers. Also, they don’t care about scratches, rust, gouges, etc. It’s an industrial machine.

They ended up agreeing to take my machine back for a full refund – including shipping. You probably have cut up the cardboard, as did I, so I went down to the local box store bought a bunch of 2×4/s and a sheet of 1/2” OSB, and crated everything back up and took it to the shipper’s hub.

Once the dust settled and I was clear of that purchase I thought about buying a Hammer instead. But, I really believe that SMC/MiniMax makes a better machine and I actually bought another one from MiniMax. Unfortunately for me, bad luck struck again – and this machine had a lot of shipping damage. For example, they package the expensive aluminum fences UNDER the machine. It worked out – they replaced all the parts and at this point a couple of years later I am happy with it. Keep in mind, Italy to S Cal is quite some distance…

I was actually banned from SawMillCreek because everytime someone was interested in purchasing a MiniMax or SCM machine and asked for opinions – I would recall my experience. So keep in mind, that they like to delete ‘negative’ posts and most of the stuff you read over there is just all positive. (Also my **shole salesman was a frequent poster over there)

View MJCD's profile

MJCD

589 posts in 2730 days


#34 posted 01-19-2018 06:46 PM

Well…

That does want to make me reconsider the Minimax J/P purchase – something I’m well down the road on… Felder AD941 here I come.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5675 posts in 2080 days


#35 posted 01-19-2018 07:18 PM

Well, I for one am sold on never buying a new SCM or MiniMax machine. Too bad as my family is getting ready to move and I’m planning on going from my current 410sqft. to ~1250sqft. and am planning on a few big purchases within the next year. Thank you Sam.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#36 posted 01-19-2018 07:18 PM

John_H’s post gives me hope that they will take care of me.

I had read that someone had an issue with their Felder delivery so I chose to work with SCM/Minimax.

I do have an attorney that can handle this for me and will hand this over to him if I think my efforts are a waste of time.

I will keep folks posted.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1223 posts in 1853 days


#37 posted 01-19-2018 07:27 PM

My condolences to OP for hassle you are experiencing. :(

That dock pic: Wow & Ouch. That pallet/tool took a bad fall somewhere. I would have argued that “can not open at dock” rule does not apply to damaged shipments that have been repackaged by carrier as they have already damaged/opened the package. Would have enabled inspection, and refusal at carrier?

SCM is reputable company. If given time to work out details, I would hope/expect you get resolution.
+1 for be patient & kind, but be aggressive.

IMHO – Would have saved CC company dispute as your last resort. It is same as hiring a lawyer to punish the supplier into submission. My first attempt to show them I mean business would have been to send them a link to this thread. They will cringe to know that LJ wood working community is waiting for and watching the outcome. :)

Worked for several companies that made semi-custom mfg equipment (not woodworking). Once a tool is booked/sold, reversing the sale is total PITA. You mentioned asking for a refund, this is equivalent to asking for a “divorce” from your wife, and IS going to take longest time to resolve. Odds are, they won’t refund your money, until they know what they get from carrier.
You will likely find equipment companies more amenable to a resolution that involves them keeping your money, where they send you a new tool, while trying to keep you as a happy customer? Never know: They might even throw in a couple inexpensive upgrades/addon’s to show that they want your future business. At a minimum, sales/marketing should buy you lunch, offer a free hat/shirt, or some other small token for letting them keep sale. I know I would in their position.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View John_'s profile

John_

197 posts in 2065 days


#38 posted 01-19-2018 08:07 PM

Part of the problem is to most woodworking ‘enthusiasts’, a machine like a Hammer/Felder or MiniMax/SCM is a ‘dream machine’ – quite a step up. Unfortunately, to these companies these are industrial machines and a $10k jointer/planer is just a drop in the bucket to them.

I don’t think it is not that they don’t care, things happen and in the industrial world all that really matters is if it works or not. On top of that, MiniMax does not have a very good web presence to begin with. I still think they make great machines but they are not very good at ‘hand holding’ when problems come up and a lot of time they end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Another problem, at least for me, was I purchased my machine just from what I read and saw on the internet. I never got to see one in real life. Fortunately, I communicated strictly via email – so everything was in writing. For example – I referenced a pic on their website and asked my salesman would my machine look exactly like that and include everything in that pic. He replied yes, and I later found out some things like the large handwheels are not included – I think they only give you one. (that came back later to bite him in the butt along with some other ‘untruths’ when things went south)

Note – my main problem with the first machine was not from shipping damage, it was a problem with the machine itself. Here is a pic of the shaper cartridge that was rusted/frozen in place and would not move. About the only fix would be to replace the entire shaper cartridge (not that easy to do)

Here is how I crated it back up – I actually liked this machine, It was a LAB300 and I had concerns going to their next biggest machine (CU300) because they did not have any more LAB300’s in stock. But it worked out

This is one of the ‘precision fences’ that was shipped underneath the replacement machine (CU300)

Another fence (the miter guage) where things were rubbing together. Does it work – ya, it works fine, but I didn’t pay for that and they ended up replacing it

CaptainKlutz brings up a good point. I was so pissed off at MiniMax over the way they initially handled this (especially my ‘salesman’) that I didn’t want to have anything to do with them and all I wanted was my money back. I then realized I was cutting off my nose to spite my face because again, I believe (and still do) they make a great product and they cut me a pretty good deal on a replacement machine.

Come on SCM – step up to the plate and do the right thing and make this customer happy

View Smirak's profile

Smirak

97 posts in 878 days


#39 posted 01-19-2018 08:16 PM

OP…FOB Origin indicates that you are the legal owner of the goods as soon as the seller ships them. In this instance, the seller has no LEGAL obligation to accept return of the goods. Note that I said LEGAL in caps…the reason I said that is because there is not a LEGAL obligation from the seller for anything, however, many times, there is a moral/ethical obligation from the seller in that they “don’t want to see their name drug through the mud”...

As for who will file the claim with the shipper, it would depend on whether the FOB Origin was prepaid or collect…If it was prepaid, you could argue that the seller (SCM) would need to file the claim as they paid the freight (though that might fall on deaf ears). If it was collect, you would be responsible for filing the claim as you paid the freight. A different way to look at it…if it was prepaid, then SCM organized the freight….if it was collect, then you organized the freight…

What did your sales contract or MAA (as posted above) state for delivery? You were under the impression it was a door to door delivery, but the above makes reference that isn’t possible unless it’s in your MAA or sales contract?

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1205 posts in 854 days


#40 posted 01-19-2018 08:57 PM



I was not forced to pickup from terminal but rather it was unclear to me where I need to get the equipment.

I ve attached a photo from the dock. I inspected the parcel as stated without opening and noted the condition on the paperwork; if this were a home delivery I could have opened the box and would have rejected the parcel.

- mbach123


Just to share my experience with SCM- I just took delivery of an MM16 in November. Your packaging looks really light weight compared to how my saw was shipped. It does however look like factory packaging (same ‘fragile’ stickers, etc.). Strange.

Smirak is exactly right about FOB Origin. You own it when the equipment leaves the SCM dock and you will need to file the claim with the shipper. I’m sure that is not what you wanted to hear but it is the case. SCM should be able to help with the process however. By chance did they use the same terrible LTL company Saia to ship your machine also? Those idiots could not find my saw at the distribution center after I drove over an hour to pick it up at the terminal. I had to go back the next day. I think the common issue here may be the shipper not SCM (although I’m surprised Sam did not treat you more professionally, he has been very good with me) so be sure you place the blame where it belongs!

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Smirak's profile

Smirak

97 posts in 878 days


#41 posted 01-19-2018 09:34 PM

As a follow-up…it would have been hard for you to have rejected the shipment (even at the dock) on an FOB Origin shipment as you legally own the product already…You reject and it goes into limbo-land somewhere…Seller has no LEGAL obligation to accept the return and shipper has no LEGAL obligation to return to seller or keep at their facility. They could have stored it at their facility and then charged you storage for it…

View John_'s profile

John_

197 posts in 2065 days


#42 posted 01-19-2018 09:45 PM

That was my recollection also. You own the machine once it leaves SCM/MiniMax

Both of my machines came on a pallet covered with cardboard like in the OP’s pic. That crate looks really nice, although as I recall the bandsaws are shipped on their back to begin with which would make them pretty unstable

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#43 posted 01-19-2018 10:21 PM

It was shipped with Saia which is a common-carrier under Yellow and the equipment was likely touched multiple times which is why I was advised to let SCM file the claim. That and Saia said only SCM could file a claim.

Smirak, I was told exactly as you stated by two local shipping experts.

I guess the bottom line is that I tried to get a J/P from SCM and now I have problems with which SCM has not provided any resolution.

View John_'s profile

John_

197 posts in 2065 days


#44 posted 01-19-2018 10:34 PM

What kind of ‘damage’ are we actually talking about – do you have any pics?

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#45 posted 01-19-2018 10:40 PM

Bent/broken bolts lots of gouges and scratches. I’ve not been able to upright it to see how badly the input panel is broken. I also don’t really want to move until I hear what’s going on with returning it.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1258 days


#46 posted 01-19-2018 10:44 PM

”SCM told me to work it out with the shipping company and has not made an attempt to replace the unit.
Sam, the sales person, told me they could be a “cheerleader” while I worked to file a claim with the shipping company and when I expressed that was not acceptable he threatened to hang up on me.”

I would have liked to hear “that” conversation.
I’ve never had someone threaten to hang up on me while discussing a problem.
Makes me kind of wonder, who set the mood?

I’m not pointing fingers so please don’t take offense, I wasn’t there.
But a lot can happen because of bad conversation.

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#47 posted 01-19-2018 10:48 PM

Sure
When he started backing out on responsibility I spoke firmly and confidently with no foul language that this was unacceptable. In earlier conversations when I specifically asked if there were to be shipping issues he said they would take care of things.

View John_'s profile

John_

197 posts in 2065 days


#48 posted 01-19-2018 11:31 PM

You are going to have to do something to assess the damage.

I hate to say it, but what I am seeing so far is cosmetic – they are going to send you a can of spray paint unless you can articulate some real damage that would warrant replacing the entire machine

Remember – industrial machinery doesn’t have to look nice but it does have to work

I looked closer at one of your pics and I can see the same, sh*tty plastic corner bracket they used with my machine. MiniMax doesn’t like to actually bolt their machines to the pallet for some reason, they like to use those plastic corner brackets to kind of keep the machine in place just by it sheer weight

Here is what mine looked like after it disintegrated

It’s clearly the shipper who is at fault – the machine should have been shipped standing upright with the corner brackets holding it in place. Something happened that it fell over and they repackaged it. Somewhere they should have a record of this. The question is – is the machine damaged enough to warrant a replacement? Also – when you ship something UPS and it gets damaged, UPS will often say it wasn’t packaged properly and is the fault of the shipper. I think the same thing applies to SCM. Not bolting a heavy machine like that to the pallet isn’t the right way to do it.

View Marlow's profile

Marlow

182 posts in 3030 days


#49 posted 01-19-2018 11:39 PM

Wait: you’re kidding, right? This was a cluster-fck of a shipment. Did the OP say he bought a “scratch and dent” unit, or did he buy a new unit? No way I would accept this unit: SCM should ship a replacement unit, provide a “sorry we fcked up” gift basket to the OP, and fight with the carrier on their own nickel. End of story.

View mbach123's profile

mbach123

29 posts in 488 days


#50 posted 01-19-2018 11:42 PM

It was a new unit

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

1 2 3 4 next »
155 replies


DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com