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Jet DC1100 Transformation ***COMPLETED***

by fivecodys
posted 01-17-2018 12:20 AM


31 replies so far

View Bill Berklich's profile

Bill Berklich

935 posts in 924 days


#1 posted 01-17-2018 11:43 AM

Nice setup. And you are a better man than me. I’m in Michigan and having my wife park in the garage in winter is never going to happen. Dragging in the wet salt slush would pretty much rust tool I own. Next house I get a dedicated shop and she get the garage back :-)

-- Bill - Rochester MI

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5799 posts in 3029 days


#2 posted 01-17-2018 12:10 PM

Be sure to have some kind of discharge with a flapper or something to keep out the insects/birds/whatever on the outside vent. Otherwise I think you’re good to go…sure wish I could vent out.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3555 posts in 2016 days


#3 posted 01-17-2018 02:22 PM

I have the exact same setup except 6” mains. It started as an experiment while I was locating a 3HP blower.

Its done so surprisingly well I just left it alone.

Venting outside makes the difference IMO.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#4 posted 01-17-2018 04:01 PM



Nice setup. And you are a better man than me. I m in Michigan and having my wife park in the garage in winter is never going to happen. Dragging in the wet salt slush would pretty much rust tool I own. Next house I get a dedicated shop and she get the garage back :-)

- Bluenote38

A dedicated shop would be awesome! Oh well. :)

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#5 posted 01-17-2018 04:01 PM



Be sure to have some kind of discharge with a flapper or something to keep out the insects/birds/whatever on the outside vent. Otherwise I think you re good to go…sure wish I could vent out.

- Fred Hargis

Good advice. Thank you!

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#6 posted 01-17-2018 04:02 PM



I have the exact same setup except 6” mains. It started as an experiment while I was locating a 3HP blower.

Its done so surprisingly well I just left it alone.

Venting outside makes the difference IMO.

- rwe2156

What did you use to transition through the wall and what are you using to direct the blast once outside?

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6065 posts in 2256 days


#7 posted 01-17-2018 04:46 PM

Looking at the top down, you have the incoming air being spun counterclockwise as it enters the cyclone then transitioned to clockwise by the blower. That will require a lot of work taking all that air mass and having to reverse the direction of rotation making the system less efficient than it could be.

That being said, I do like the clean, stacked look of the assembly.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View laterthanuthink's profile

laterthanuthink

44 posts in 665 days


#8 posted 01-17-2018 04:48 PM

Nice compact setup. Will you output to a filter or canister? I was looking at doing something like this, which I found somewhere on the interwebs.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#9 posted 01-17-2018 06:37 PM



Looking at the top down, you have the incoming air being spun counterclockwise as it enters the cyclone then transitioned to clockwise by the blower. That will require a lot of work taking all that air mass and having to reverse the direction of rotation making the system less efficient than it could be.

That being said, I do like the clean, stacked look of the assembly.

- bigblockyeti

Interesting. I could reverse the direction that the exhaust elbow points (just up there for mock up right now) so the it exits the machine to the left like it did in its original configuration. I was wondering what effect direct venting will have on the motor because it is not having to push the exhaust air through filters. Maybe a bit of back pressure might be a good thing? Your thought?

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6065 posts in 2256 days


#10 posted 01-17-2018 06:49 PM

Back pressure reduction would be best. The direction the elbow is pointed should have no effect on the apparent load. The best thing would be to put the motor on the opposite side of the volute but I don’t think that can be done with that housing as it’s nonreversible if I remember correctly.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#11 posted 01-17-2018 06:51 PM



Nice compact setup. Will you output to a filter or canister? I was looking at doing something like this, which I found somewhere on the interwebs.

- laterthanuthink


That was my first idea too but it takes up too much room in my small shop. I will not have a filter just the Super Dust Deputy that is supposed to capture 99% of it anyway. I will be sending the other 1% into the flower beds. Previously I was using fans to blow all the fine dust out of the garage to the side yard so it’s not much different.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

466 posts in 1195 days


#12 posted 01-17-2018 06:57 PM

I am curious about this. If you vent your dust collector outside, instead of into the filter and collection bag, why would you still require a filter? I thought that venting the chips outside negates the need for a filter?

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#13 posted 01-17-2018 07:15 PM



I am curious about this. If you vent your dust collector outside, instead of into the filter and collection bag, why would you still require a filter? I thought that venting the chips outside negates the need for a filter?

- SweetTea

I am only venting the air “after” it passes through the Super Dust Deputy. That unit (SDD) will gather up to 99% of the dust and chips and drop them into the yellow bin below it. So, all that is venting outside is exhaust air and about 1% of the super fine dust that the SDD did not capture.
I hope that helps.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6065 posts in 2256 days


#14 posted 01-17-2018 10:21 PM

Unfortunately that last 1% that isn’t captured is composed of the smallest, most dangerous (from a health standpoint) dust particles, some kind of filter would be better than none.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#15 posted 01-17-2018 11:29 PM



Unfortunately that last 1% that isn t captured is composed of the smallest, most dangerous (from a health standpoint) dust particles, some kind of filter would be better than none.

- bigblockyeti

I think there is some confusion here so let me try this again.

The Super Dust Deputy claims that of the saw dust and chips collected, 99% are captured and sent to the barrel.
The one percent that is not captured, exits out of the blower out outside through a dryer vent. (or something similar)

IF I was returning this air back into the shop then yes, that 1% of fine dust would indeed be an issue that would require a filter. But, since I am not returning that air back into the shop, but to the outside, it will not be an issue.

Now with all of that said, there is still the issue of the dust that the collector does not gather at the machines.
This will be an issue, as it is in any shop, that will require an air cleaner and dust masks when needed.

This is why I have installed an air cleaner in the ceiling where, I believe, most of the airborne dust will be floating around.

I hope this makes it a little clearer. No pun intended. :)

Thank you for your comments.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6065 posts in 2256 days


#16 posted 01-18-2018 12:24 AM

OK, that does clear it up, I thought you were exhausting the blower back into the shop, outside makes far more sense. My shop in middle school and high school both had DC systems that did just that.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#17 posted 01-18-2018 12:30 AM



OK, that does clear it up, I thought you were exhausting the blower back into the shop, outside makes far more sense. My shop in middle school and high school both had DC systems that did just that.

- bigblockyeti

Yep. Mine too! They took the wood-shop out of our middle school a few years ago and replaced it with a library. I was heart broken that my kids did not get to take wood-shop there like their dad did. At least our high school still offers it.

Have a nice evening!

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#18 posted 01-30-2018 06:02 PM

UPDATE:
I received my duct work and fittings yesterday.


The DC is now ducting its exhaust to the flowerbed outside via a heavy duty dryer type vent
(I will post a picture of that later).
The exhaust steps down from 5” to 4” flex pipe as it exits the garage.
I was going to go 5” all the way out but it is really pricey so I will evaluate this set up and report back.

This weekend I will begin the installation of the duct work.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6065 posts in 2256 days


#19 posted 01-30-2018 06:48 PM

Did you end up using standard or large radius elbows? I know what you mean about ducting getting expensive, I need to plumb mine and it’s going to be mostly 7” only stepping down closer to each tool.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#20 posted 01-30-2018 07:30 PM



Did you end up using standard or large radius elbows? I know what you mean about ducting getting expensive, I need to plumb mine and it s going to be mostly 7” only stepping down closer to each tool.

- bigblockyeti

The duct work I purchased was from Oneida. It’s all 26 Gauge. All of the elbows are their long sweep adjustable.
All the duct is 5” and will step down to 4” with the exception of the table saw which will stay at 5”.
I did use HVAC elbows for the exhaust. My local hardware store had them and they were only $3.00 a piece.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

115 posts in 992 days


#21 posted 01-30-2018 07:36 PM

Nice setup. A couple of suggestions. As mentioned above the blower and SDD are spinning in opposite directions. This causes turbulence, noise and reduced efficiency. Someone in the Thein forum bent some plastic I believe, that was so tight it was a friction fit, down the throat of the SDD. This acted as an air straightener.

It quieted the system and improved airflow. I had the same situation with an old Oneida cyclone, where I made a X out of flat duct material and taped it to the vortex (center tube). It was noticeably quieter and I measured ~ 8% airflow improvement. The other suggestion is on your output, the less restriction the better. Necking down the output to 4” limits the input flow to the same amount, so going bigger will be better. Putting a 5 to 6” adapter right at the blower output and simply use cheap big box 6” duct to the outside wall. Going to 4” and having the sharp bends in flex hose is limiting your overall system performance.

Hope this helps and keep us posted on your progress!

Carl

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#22 posted 01-30-2018 08:44 PM



Nice setup. A couple of suggestions. As mentioned above the blower and SDD are spinning in opposite directions. This causes turbulence, noise and reduced efficiency. Someone in the Thein forum bent some plastic I believe, that was so tight it was a friction fit, down the throat of the SDD. This acted as an air straightener.

It quieted the system and improved airflow. I had the same situation with an old Oneida cyclone, where I made a X out of flat duct material and taped it to the vortex (center tube). It was noticeably quieter and I measured ~ 8% airflow improvement. The other suggestion is on your output, the less restriction the better. Necking down the output to 4” limits the input flow to the same amount, so going bigger will be better. Putting a 5 to 6” adapter right at the blower output and simply use cheap big box 6” duct to the outside wall. Going to 4” and having the sharp bends in flex hose is limiting your overall system performance.

Hope this helps and keep us posted on your progress!

Carl

- Carl10

Thank you Carl for the comments.

I wondered about the size of the exhaust ducting. My thought was that even though it was smaller that the 5” inlet, the absence of back flow pressure from pushing the air through a filter (bag) would kind of balance it all out. I am not happy with the elbow right at the blower but I am very limited due to the garage door track being right in the way. I did use 5” elbows to make the turn as smooth as I could but I know it’s not ideal.
I could use 5” flex hose and run directly from the blower to the vent but I will have the same 4” choke as I exit the building. If I did use the flex hose it would be a much smoother path but then there is the ripples inside the hose, so…....

I think I need an aspirin now! :)

I am interested in the baffle you made. This thing really howls when I turn it on. I have only ran it for a few seconds since I do not have the duct work hooked up yet but it is loud.

I really need to come up with a way to measure all of this so I can get the most out of this set up.

Thank you again for your comments!

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View Carl10's profile

Carl10

115 posts in 992 days


#23 posted 01-31-2018 01:50 AM

Well I don’t have a pic of what is inside my unit but this is the idea.

I took 2 pieces of flat galvanized duct material (anything stiff and flat will do) cut a slit halfway down the middle on both pieces and slid them together to make a cross. So in your case it will be 6”x5” (center tube dia. x ~5”) pieces, if you make it a hair bigger you can give it a little bend and they will stay in the tube while you tape them in place. I used foil duct tape as a temporary measure but it hasn’t budged so I left it that way.

As far as the output, you will be surprised what a difference that will make by enlarging the duct. On my old Oneida, it had an internal filter, so there was a heavy metal lattice over the blower output. I estimated that it covered almost 10 sq. in. of the output. After I removed it I measured about a 5% increase in airflow. Your 5” output is 7 sq. in bigger than a 4” duct.

To measure these changes I use a Pitot tube. Years ago I bought a small anemometer to measure airflow, and was fooled into thinking I had better performance than I really did. The anemometer is a cheap way to measure changes but not actual numbers (not even close). A Pitot tube and the accompanying Magnahelic are about $50-60 on eBay. For comparison I measured my flow with both and the anemometer was inflated by 30%. You can find a great test that RedOak did on using an anemometer here in his blog.

I know you may say that another ~5% isn’t worth the hassle, but those little things really add up. My Old Oneida started out with an internal filter and delivered ~460CFM max! After all the tweaks and adjustments I went over 750CFM. So every 5 and 10% really adds up.

Once you have your duct work setup you can do an easy test by running with the current 4” exhaust and then have someone remove it completely to see if you notice any suction differnece at your tool port. I say wait until your ducting is in becasue with no duct or exhaust you will overheat your motor (no load). If it were me I would use a 6” exhaust vent on the wall and run 6” all the way to your blower.

Hope this answers your question. Let us know what you do.

Carl

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#24 posted 01-31-2018 02:10 AM



Well I don t have a pic of what is inside my unit but this is the idea.

I took 2 pieces of flat galvanized duct material (anything stiff and flat will do) cut a slit halfway down the middle on both pieces and slid them together to make a cross. So in your case it will be 6”x5” (center tube dia. x ~5”) pieces, if you make it a hair bigger you can give it a little bend and they will stay in the tube while you tape them in place. I used foil duct tape as a temporary measure but it hasn t budged so I left it that way.

As far as the output, you will be surprised what a difference that will make by enlarging the duct. On my old Oneida, it had an internal filter, so there was a heavy metal lattice over the blower output. I estimated that it covered almost 10 sq. in. of the output. After I removed it I measured about a 5% increase in airflow. Your 5” output is 7 sq. in bigger than a 4” duct.

To measure these changes I use a Pitot tube. Years ago I bought a small anemometer to measure airflow, and was fooled into thinking I had better performance than I really did. The anemometer is a cheap way to measure changes but not actual numbers (not even close). A Pitot tube and the accompanying Magnahelic are about $50-60 on eBay. For comparison I measured my flow with both and the anemometer was inflated by 30%. You can find a great test that RedOak did on using an anemometer here in his blog.

I know you may say that another ~5% isn t worth the hassle, but those little things really add up. My Old Oneida started out with an internal filter and delivered ~460CFM max! After all the tweaks and adjustments I went over 750CFM. So every 5 and 10% really adds up.

Once you have your duct work setup you can do an easy test by running with the current 4” exhaust and then have someone remove it completely to see if you notice any suction differnece at your tool port. I say wait until your ducting is in becasue with no duct or exhaust you will overheat your motor (no load). If it were me I would use a 6” exhaust vent on the wall and run 6” all the way to your blower.

Hope this answers your question. Let us know what you do.

Carl

- Carl10

Thanks Carl,
I do know better than to run the DC with no load. I did turn it on for a few seconds to see if the flex duct could handle the pressure.
I hope to have all the ducting up this weekend.
The blower has a 5” dia exit point and I had been looking for a 5” dryer vent (for lack of a better term) and have had no luck so I settled for the 4”. I can re-purpose that vent if ever I find a 5” vent.
I don’t want to just hang any old thing out of the wall because it is visible as you walk up to the front door and the wife would give me fits if it’s ugly. :)
Thank you very much for the information. It is very helpful.

Wish me luck!

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#25 posted 02-04-2018 10:40 PM

Well….It’s finally done!
I have completed my dust collection upgrade.
I now have a fully functioning Cyclone.

Please note that my shop is in “garage mode” in these photos.

I made the modifications recommended by “Carl” I added the “V” shaped baffle and I did notice a reduction in noise. (I forgot to take a picture and I wasn’t about to take it all apart again)
I also updated the Exhaust to 6” HVAC and I am using a 6” dryer vent to pipe it out of the garage/shop.

I then assembled the ducting and gates. I have 4 drops in all.
Two 4” for my planer & Joiner. (You can see my WEN air cleaner in the foreground)

It then goes up to ceiling height and has a 5” drop for my table saw.

It then passes over the entire width of the garage/shop and makes a final 4” drop to where my Ridgid sanding station lives.

All in all the total run is about 28’.

The total cost of this upgrade, including the WEN was about $900.

I was not happy with the way the Oneida ducts and fitting came together and will be having a chat with them later this week. There was no way to get my first 5’ section of pipe to mate with the opening in the Super Dust Deputy. I tried everything including re-crimping the pipe. It took some imagination and a rubber plumbing fitting to make the union.
Anyway, It is all together now and seems to be working well.
Thank you to all who made comments and gave advice throughout this project.
You are all a truly great resource for the woodworker.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View Charlie H.'s profile

Charlie H.

388 posts in 1186 days


#26 posted 02-05-2018 03:18 AM

Is there any possibility you can get access to an anemometer and measure the cfm at the tool closest to the dust deputy?

-- Regards, Charlie in Rowlett, TX --------I talk to myself, because sometimes I need expert advice.---------

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#27 posted 02-05-2018 03:39 AM



Is there any possibility you can get access to an anemometer and measure the cfm at the tool closest to the dust deputy?

- Chashint

Hi Charlie,
Unfortunately I do not have access to one.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View Charlie H.'s profile

Charlie H.

388 posts in 1186 days


#28 posted 02-05-2018 02:33 PM

I understand.
Thanks for the quick reply.

-- Regards, Charlie in Rowlett, TX --------I talk to myself, because sometimes I need expert advice.---------

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1518 posts in 2172 days


#29 posted 02-07-2018 11:31 PM

I forgot to mention that I am using 5” duct work from Oneida. The Super Dust Deputy had a 5” port for the duct work and Oneida recommended using 5” pipe so I did. It reduces down to 4” at three of the gates with the exception of the drop for the table saw which remains 5”.

It was a fun journey but I’m glad that part is over.

Thanks for looking.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View laterthanuthink's profile

laterthanuthink

44 posts in 665 days


#30 posted 02-09-2018 05:12 PM

How about this little beauty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuHEZk0431o&

View laterthanuthink's profile

laterthanuthink

44 posts in 665 days


#31 posted 02-09-2018 05:12 PM

How about this little beauty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuHEZk0431o&

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