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View msinc's profile

Picture frame miters????

by msinc
posted 01-11-2018 01:08 AM


26 replies so far

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1796 posts in 521 days


#1 posted 01-11-2018 01:19 AM

no – the picture framing ladies are not using shooting boards or a chop saw.

back in the day when I was doing a lot of shadow boxes,
I invested in the miter trimmer (Moulding Guillotine).
it is as accurate and splinter free of any hand tool you will ever find.
drawbacks: a little on the pricey side and HEAVY (mine was all cast iron) and takes up
a lot of table space unless you hang it on the wall when not in use.
well worth the investment if you intend to do a lot of framing
and demand accuracy with every joint. the way it works is you rough cut
your molding 1/8” longer than needed then go to the Guillotine and shave off
right on the line. like a paper cutter cutting through poster board.
drop by your local picture frame shop and check it out.
this is probably another volatile subject with the “Nay Sayers” insisting
any jack or block plane, when correctly and accurately sharpened, will do the same thing.
this is just my personal choice for production work – one quick “swish” and it’s done.
first time – every time…... none of this cut/see if it fits – cut/see if it fits – cut/see if it fits, etc etc etc.
I don’t know what is on today’s market, but, the one I had would trim a pine 2×4 with 100% accuracy.

.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#2 posted 01-11-2018 01:24 AM

Please forgive my ignorance/stupidity, but do you actually make the cut with this device or do you saw it close and shave off a thin final amount with this thing? Seems like forcing a blade thick enough to be stable thru a 2” wide piece of maple might cause it to want to not go straight {90 degrees} thru? Thanks for posting!!!

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

2195 posts in 2156 days


#3 posted 01-11-2018 01:45 AM

I use a 12 Forrest chopmaster on a Bosch glide.I can get very close depending on how well my wood is prepared.
I do have a Lie Neilson miter plane to tweak any joints the need it.
When I ordered the blade I let them know I would be cutting miters in 1 inch Hickory. Im not sure if that made a difference but the blade cut a very flat miter.
Jigs for clamping fasteners,glue that’s a whole new discussion that just as important.
Good luck miters can be very challenging

-- Aj

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 950 days


#4 posted 01-11-2018 01:48 AM

I just cut it on a table saw with Incra meter gauge. The latter must be setup ansolutely perfect as an error is multiplied 8 times . The last corner will not come together if you have more than 2-3 thousands on the length of one side imperfection

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1796 posts in 521 days


#5 posted 01-11-2018 01:50 AM

msinc – please read my post again.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#6 posted 01-11-2018 03:37 AM



msinc – please read my post again.

- John Smith

Thank you sir…”a little on the pricey side”??? If it will cut real 45 degree miters I would pay $2000.00!!! Rockler has them on sale for $189.00.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#7 posted 01-11-2018 03:39 AM



I just cut it on a table saw with Incra meter gauge. The latter must be setup ansolutely perfect as an error is multiplied 8 times . The last corner will not come together if you have more than 2-3 thousands on the length of one side imperfection

- Carloz

Thanks for the info, I just checked out their website…looks interesting. Also, I noticed that they were using it a lot on a bandsaw…I have a PM1500 and for no more than what this costs I think I might give it a try too.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#8 posted 01-11-2018 03:41 AM



I use a 12 Forrest chopmaster on a Bosch glide.I can get very close depending on how well my wood is prepared.
I do have a Lie Neilson miter plane to tweak any joints the need it.
When I ordered the blade I let them know I would be cutting miters in 1 inch Hickory. Im not sure if that made a difference but the blade cut a very flat miter.
Jigs for clamping fasteners,glue that s a whole new discussion that just as important.
Good luck miters can be very challenging

- Aj2

Yes they can, thanks for the info. I will check out these suggestions. I am going to guess and say that the miter plane has to have a very sharp blade to work properly???

View oldwood's profile

oldwood

155 posts in 1602 days


#9 posted 01-11-2018 03:50 AM

It does not matter how accurate the miter cuts are if the opposing sides are not the EXACT same length.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#10 posted 01-11-2018 04:11 AM



It does not matter how accurate the miter cuts are if the opposing sides are not the EXACT same length.

- oldwood

Yes sir, and I couldn’t agree more….that was part of my original post when I asked about “easy”. Easy to see exactly where the blade is going to cut. If it’s easy to see then I believe it will be easier to get the length right.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1796 posts in 521 days


#11 posted 01-11-2018 04:18 AM

msinc – don’t be shy about stopping into a picture frame place
and talk with them about their miter cutter.
I’m sure the older shops will have the vintage heavy cast iron cutter
and the newer shops will have the Grizzly or Rockler brands.

good luck with whatever you choose !!! photos of your projects would be interesting to see.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5964 posts in 2767 days


#12 posted 01-11-2018 04:19 AM

I use this jig for my TS. Tight joints everytime as long as you follow the directions. Cut A always mates to cut B. Together cut A and cut B always equal exactly 90 degrees with no gaps. Several youtube how to videos on how to build. If you had the Moulding Guillotine you could fine tune any cut but thus far in the year I have had this jig I have yet to be disappointed with the joints made by it.
Here is a picture of mine:

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2252 days


#13 posted 01-11-2018 05:57 AM

Moulding Guillotine is awesome.
I do use a shooting board and chop saw/bandsaw/dozuki saw – unlike the ladies. But I don’t do a lot of frames.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#14 posted 01-11-2018 12:57 PM

Thanks for the replies fellas!!! Mr. Smith, I will get some photos posted soon. I am liking that TS jig, does it have guides to go in both of the T-slots in your table? I was kind envisioning something similar but only one side…the two sides make perfect sense. Is it easy to see where the cut will be? I don’t a lot of frames either, but when I do it is usually because what’s going in it is valuable and so I would prefer if it was as right as possible {I mean for a hillbilly like me}
Yeah, never used a molding guillotine, but I also think it has to be awesome…for no more than what it cost I have gotta have one!! I’d would very much like to find a good, used, older one that is heavy. Guess I better start watching the bay….thanks again guys!!!

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1796 posts in 521 days


#15 posted 01-11-2018 01:59 PM

the Moulding Guillotine at work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPJinTEesMg
some very good ideas tossed around here that will make your projects easier.

msinc – Pinterest is your friend !!! my daughter turned me onto it last year
and became quickly addicted to it over any other search engine.
search Pinterest for TABLE SAW SLED and you will be amazed at the ingenuity
of some of these guys making sleds and jigs that it will boggle your mind.
but again – a sled and jig is only as accurate as the skill level of the craftsman behind the wheel.
this will get you started:
https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?rs=ac&len=2&q=table%20saw%20sled&eq=table%20saw%20sled&etslf=NaN&term_meta[]=table%7Cautocomplete%7Cundefined&term_meta[]=saw%7Cautocomplete%7Cundefined&term_meta[]=sled%7Cautocomplete%7Cundefined

Note: if the two track rails are not snug and true – nothing else matters.
you may as well go to the stock miter gauge that came with the saw.
the instructions are quite clear and precise on how to build the basic sled.
once you get the base made – the rest is limited only to your imagination.

,

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

117615 posts in 3935 days


#16 posted 01-11-2018 02:21 PM

Msinc

Many of the options will work, I know that professional picture frame folks always use a Moulding Guillotine like John suggested. if you are only going to make a few frames a table saw slid might be a better option Here’s a plan that I have used and many of my students liked also.
https://www.woodsmithplans.com/plan/table-saw-miter-sled/
A key point when making picture frames is that parallel sides are exactly the same length and of course have the angles cut correctly.

If you end up just using your table saw miter gauge then this little tool can help clean up angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ese4ZEAzrbs

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#17 posted 01-11-2018 02:37 PM

Thanks fellas…I think a subscription to “Wood Smith” magazine is also in order!!! Never even thought of Pinterest, thanks Mr. Smith.

I was thinking that it’s a little strange table saw makers don’t offer optional sleds and jigs to do this stuff. I am one of those guys that enjoys the fun of making my own stuff. I especially enjoy when it works, which is something like one out of ten….but sometimes you just want to move on with the program and get it done…seems like there would be a market for ready made click and buy sleds and jigs. I ordered a PM2000 yesterday…now I am twice as chompin’ at the bit to get it!!!!

Edit: ah ha….the miter trimmer does need the molding to be cut to a rough size first. Not that it’s a problem, but when you said “it will cut a 2X4 I was envisioning an 8 ft 2X4 being made into 2 4 ft ones. This is basically like a “shooter board and plane” with a big handle on it!!! I’m tracking now…...a little slow at times, well most times, just sayin’

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1796 posts in 521 days


#18 posted 01-11-2018 05:08 PM

yeah – I guess I should have said it will “shave the end” off of a 2×4 after it is rough cut first.
but if you have a very true running arbor on your table saw, and a tight fitting sled,
and a high tooth blade (80t up to 180t) you can achieve remarkable joinery results.
once you get started, you will find what works best for you in your applications then
your hobby will be most rewarding. and never stop learning !!!!
even the most seasoned veteran woodworkers learn new tricks now and then.

have fun – CUT SAFE !!!!

.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View theart's profile

theart

91 posts in 913 days


#19 posted 01-11-2018 05:51 PM

Yes sir, and I couldn t agree more….that was part of my original post when I asked about “easy”. Easy to see exactly where the blade is going to cut. If it s easy to see then I believe it will be easier to get the length right.

- msinc

Rather than trust my eyes, I cut the two opposite sides clamped together with my miter saw. I set the blade to 45, then cut top and bottom to one side of the blade and sides to the other.

View Walker's profile

Walker

158 posts in 830 days


#20 posted 01-11-2018 06:01 PM

If you end up making a table saw sled/jig look up the “zeroplay” by micro-jig. It expands to fit your miter slots exactly. I built a cross cut sled with them that works fantastic. Also, waxing the slots and table top is a huge help. I find most of the micro jig stuff to be pricey for what it is (just a piece of plastic), but effective.

-- ~Walker

View ScottKaye's profile

ScottKaye

757 posts in 2311 days


#21 posted 01-11-2018 06:03 PM

Simple. Use a Miterset. Woodpeckers quality at a fraction of the cost.

-- "Nothing happens until you build it"

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#22 posted 01-11-2018 06:03 PM


yeah – I guess I should have said it will “shave the end” off of a 2×4 after it is rough cut first.
but if you have a very true running arbor on your table saw, and a tight fitting sled,
and a high tooth blade (80t up to 180t) you can achieve remarkable joinery results.
once you get started, you will find what works best for you in your applications then
your hobby will be most rewarding. and never stop learning !!!!
even the most seasoned veteran woodworkers learn new tricks now and then.

have fun – CUT SAFE !!!!
- John Smith

Yes sir, thanks again…it is my intention to buy a good high tooth count quality blade and keep it separate just for cutting miters when I get the new saw. I also think I will set up a dial indicator and measure the runout {if any} on the arbor before I out the saw into use. Nothing lasts forever, and I can check it periodically to see if it is developing any as time goes on.


Yes sir, and I couldn t agree more….that was part of my original post when I asked about “easy”. Easy to see exactly where the blade is going to cut. If it s easy to see then I believe it will be easier to get the length right.

- msinc
Rather than trust my eyes, I cut the two opposite sides clamped together with my miter saw. I set the blade to 45, then cut top and bottom to one side of the blade and sides to the other.
- theart

Good idea…the sleds I am looking at seem to have plenty of height to allow for double stacking the molding I am using.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 862 days


#23 posted 01-11-2018 06:11 PM


If you end up making a table saw sled/jig look up the “zeroplay” by micro-jig. It expands to fit your miter slots exactly. I built a cross cut sled with them that works fantastic. Also, waxing the slots and table top is a huge help. I find most of the micro jig stuff to be pricey for what it is (just a piece of plastic), but effective.

- Walker

If it works I don’t care what it costs…thanks for posting, I will check this stuff out.


Simple. Use a Miterset. Woodpeckers quality at a fraction of the cost.

- ScottKaye

Thanks, I will have a look at this stuff too.

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5964 posts in 2767 days


#24 posted 01-12-2018 02:58 AM


Note: if the two track rails are not snug and true – nothing else matters.
you may as well go to the stock miter gauge that came with the saw.
the instructions are quite clear and precise on how to build the basic sled.
once you get the base made – the rest is limited only to your imagination.

- John Smith

A very good jig to have handy.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1884 posts in 962 days


#25 posted 01-12-2018 04:13 AM

This jig is one of my favorites because it not only cuts perfect miters but even better, it allows you to cut your frame to the exact size of the matte/glass insert regardless of the width of the frame rails. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6fUXRMJ0DI&list=PL-22xIau8HeYhz7h7cIx0HoIKvCg-ugLI

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5964 posts in 2767 days


#26 posted 01-12-2018 04:30 AM



This jig is one of my favorites because it not only cuts perfect miters but even better, it allows you to cut your frame to the exact size of the matte/glass insert regardless of the width of the frame rails. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6fUXRMJ0DI&list=PL-22xIau8HeYhz7h7cIx0HoIKvCg-ugLI

- Andybb


A nice jig that is now on my to do list. Thanks for the tip!

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

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