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View bearswamp's profile

Delta 36-725 table saw motor brush replacement

by bearswamp
posted 01-10-2018 07:47 PM


40 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#1 posted 01-10-2018 07:54 PM

The 36-725 has an induction motor (capacitors should have tipped you off), so there are no brushes to change. What you describe sounds like a motor wired for 240v being run on 120v.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#2 posted 01-10-2018 08:04 PM

My understanding (backed up by a quick google search) is that the 36-725 cannot run on 240V.

Most likely to least likely:

- The blade is dull
- The blade and fence are out of alignment
(some other stuff)
- The motor is damaged or burned out

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#3 posted 01-10-2018 08:09 PM

Actually, I seem to remember a few others with the same problem… turned out to be a loose or disconnected wire on one of the capacitors.

My understanding (backed up by a quick google search) is that the 36-725 cannot run on 240V

Check page 30 of the manual... under the section titled ”240 Volt Single Phase Operation” – where it says:

The 120/240 volt, dual-voltage motor supplied with your machine was shipped prepared for 120 volt operation. It can be converted for 240 volt operation.

There is no telling what a PO may have done, so it’s always best to verify first. Coming from a cabinet maker shop, running it on 240v is a distinct possibility.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Runner's profile

Runner

82 posts in 1133 days


#4 posted 01-10-2018 08:53 PM

I’m running my 36-725 on 240V. It’s very easy to change from 120V. Flip the switch on the motor to 240, then change the plug.

-- Kjell - Eau Claire WI

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#5 posted 01-10-2018 09:11 PM

Strange, because the Delta website says 120V operation, and nothing at all about 240V.

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#6 posted 01-11-2018 12:14 AM

Brad/Jonah/Runner – First off thank you for helping.

Brad – Thanks for the info. I am happier that my ego took a slight dent rather than trying to find a non existent brush.

Anyway when you mentioned that it sounds like it was running off 240 and Runner mentioned there was a switch ... I thought “Bingo”. So I found the switch and expected to see it set on 240, but it is set on 115 (actually says 230 in the other direction).

I also found the thread you mentioned on the capacitor and checked the connections on mine. They all looked good.

So now I am left wondering if I have a weak capacitor. They looked like aluminum electrolytic caps (but I am not sure maybe film) and I did not see any indication of leaks.

One thing I did notice was I am getting a surge when I start the saw since the garage lights droop for an instant. I never noticed that with my other power tools ( miter saw, compressor, etc..). It also looks like the blade starts a little slow and then picks up steam ( I don’t think it is my imagination).

The blade looks good, but I think I going to take Jonah’s advice next and pick up another blade on Friday and try it.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#7 posted 01-11-2018 02:13 AM

Is there a lot of other stuff on the same circuit? It could be starved of power. The dimming lights is a bit of a warning sign there.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5675 posts in 2080 days


#8 posted 01-11-2018 02:26 AM

It really does sound like a capacitor issue, get the numbers off both and order them from Amazon or a local motor shop, either will be far less expensive than ordering from Delta.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View alittleoff's profile

alittleoff

541 posts in 1636 days


#9 posted 01-11-2018 03:01 AM

If the lights are dimming it’s a good possibility you’ve got, or getting low voltage to the motor. That moter pulls quiet a lot starting up. Check your voltage with a good meter and make sure your getting 120 volts.. next check the circuit wire size, it needs to be wired with no. 12 copper wire. Also it should be on a circuit by itself. If something else is on the same circuit it will cause problems like you say your having. Also lights dimming, could also indicate a loose neutral. It could be at the transformer, meter, panel, or receptacle. The capacitor should really only help the motor to start. The other thing could be dull blade, and or feeding the wood through to fast. I can’t remember the hp on the saw, but it will slow down cutting wet or treated lumber, or the one I had would.
Gerald

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#10 posted 01-11-2018 03:18 AM

Thanks guys. So I have a 50 amp sub panel in the garage and the saw was plugged into a circuit dedicated to 3 outlets in series with 12 awg Cu. There were no other items drawing from the circuit when I started it earlier. The droop is odd to me since I run a multipurpose welder from that sub panel on 220 albeit and never see that phenomenon. Also the lights are on a dedicated circuit. So it is a pretty good surge.

View Rayne's profile

Rayne

1191 posts in 1899 days


#11 posted 01-11-2018 03:34 AM

Also check if you have a full kerf blade versus a thin kerf. You’ll get better results with thin kerf. Not sure if the motor can handle deep cuts with a full kerf blade; I can’t say for sure as I’ve never used one when I had mine.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#12 posted 01-11-2018 04:00 AM

It really does sound like a capacitor issue, get the numbers off both and order them from Amazon or a local motor shop, either will be far less expensive than ordering from Delta.
- bigblockyeti

The capacitor should really only help the motor to start.
- alittleoff

The capacitors are easy to test with a simple multimeter – even one of those free deals you get with a coupon from HF. No need to go buying stuff you don’t need :)

There are two capacitors… one is a start capacitor and the other a run capacitor. Both are used during startup, and one drops out after it’s up to speed. If the run capacitor is bad or not connected, the symptoms are similar to what you are seeing, so that is a possibility.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12772 posts in 2740 days


#13 posted 01-11-2018 04:21 AM

Eliminate the simple stuff first before replacing parts.
Using an extension cord? Try without.
Try a different outlet.
Check wire connections.
Lights dimming is a sign you are starving for power which will cause lack of power.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#14 posted 01-11-2018 02:25 PM

These suggestions should keep me busy. I also found this thread: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/202202

I am going to add the starter point cleaning to the list of possibilities. I should probably try to contact Marty on his procedure for doing this :). Still can’t send messages since I have not created enough posts.

View MinnesotaSteve's profile

MinnesotaSteve

54 posts in 1251 days


#15 posted 01-11-2018 04:25 PM

This may not be related to your problem, but it doesn’t involve buying parts so it’s something to check.

I had a problem with my rockler dust collector where it would try to start and struggle, then after about 30 seconds it’d pop the internal breaker. I had to adjust the centrifugal switch as it wasn’t engaging properly.

I found a nice video from grizzly that showed how this is done…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-j6PhthXJY

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#16 posted 01-11-2018 10:39 PM

Checked the caps with the meter and they read open and are not bulged. Next I pulled out my 13A HF table saw and did a side by side. It was night and day with the HF outperforming. So I swapped the delta blade for the one on the HF saw and it cut worse. I actually stalled the saw with the same feed rate.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#17 posted 01-11-2018 10:48 PM

Checked the caps with the meter and they read open and are not bulged.

What to you mean ‘open’? You should get varying resistance, going from zero to infinite. Reverse leads, and get the same results. If you are reading steady zero ohms, it’s shorted and bad. If you are reading steady infinite, then it’s also fried. Also, make sure they are disconnected when testing.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1687 posts in 3225 days


#18 posted 01-11-2018 10:50 PM

That sounds very familiar, did the motor get hot by any chance, mine got hot enough to trip the thermal circuit after just a little bit of cutting.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/232081

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#19 posted 01-11-2018 11:36 PM

Brad I pulled the caps out of the unit and put my cheap HF meter across the poles and it read open or infinite. Which is what was initially expecting, but after unpacking your message, I put the meter on the highest setting and it varies like you describe.

Pat I just purchased it; it may have gotten to that point in the past, by I don’t know. Thanks for the thread I will read through it tonight.

Pat I did read that thread yesterday I am happy it worked out ok for you. When I read that I was hoping to find a dangling terminal :)

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1147 posts in 1920 days


#20 posted 01-12-2018 12:08 AM

Using the ohm setting on a multimeter will only show if the capacitor is dead, or not. It does not show if the capacitor is in good or poor condition. To see if a capacitor is functioning at the right capacitance, a capacitor tester is needed.

View ThaiTonic's profile

ThaiTonic

2 posts in 495 days


#21 posted 01-12-2018 12:55 AM

Bearswamp
I had the exact saw purchased from local blue store. It lasted less than a year with similar symptoms as yours. Cut great until one day it started to dim the lights upon power up.

Tripped thermal breaker, reset, tripped again, then smoked. Called warranty who sent me to two different shops. It comes with a 5 year warranty.

First shop kept it 3 weeks and then said parts on backorder. I brought to second shop who kept it for 5 weeks with no success either.

I called Delta and raised cain. They sent me to the blue store and had me call back while speaking to assistant manager. Long story short, full refund.

Btw. The shop tried new capacitors. No luck. It’s the motor and it’s proprietary. The motor retails for more than the whole saw according to Delta.

Best of luck.

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#22 posted 01-12-2018 01:17 AM

Thanks For the post Thai, starting to feel like I paid 250 for a new workbench. :( . My own fault …. new one for the lessons learned book

View ThaiTonic's profile

ThaiTonic

2 posts in 495 days


#23 posted 01-12-2018 01:31 AM

Sorry for the not so good news. I did enjoy the saw while it worked and was in my budget at the time.

I still have the ble steel insert and am happy to gift it to you if you are successful at getting the 36-725 working again.

PM me or call 337-254-6068.

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#24 posted 01-12-2018 06:46 PM

So I picked up a new multimeter that reads capacitance and the caps test as labeled. Checked my outlet voltage and getting 120. Fence is parallel to the blade. I also picked up a thin kerf 40T Diablo which did not change things. Thinking now that needle is almost pointing to SOL for me and this saw.

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1147 posts in 1920 days


#25 posted 01-12-2018 07:19 PM

Yep… seems the cabinet maker may have seen the writing on the wall. Too bad for you though. Someone else on this forum has a warped top needing replacement. May be you can part out your saw.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#26 posted 01-12-2018 07:30 PM

I wouldn’t give up on it just yet. Motors are not something that ‘just go bad’. There is a reason it is acting like it is, and it usually is something simple. I’d check the centrifugal switch next.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#27 posted 01-12-2018 07:53 PM

The motor might be some sort of funny mount, but you can almost certainly make a standard motor fit with some work.

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#28 posted 01-13-2018 01:12 AM

Well I pulled the motor and set it up on my bench and am able to power it up. The centerfugal switch seems to be working both mechanically and electrically. It looks like this is what controls the start cap. It stays shut for a second and then opens as the motor hits full speed. The larger run cap is independent of this switch.

I wondering if it could be the belt. I can hold it with 2 fingers and get the arbor to slip with my other hand.

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1147 posts in 1920 days


#29 posted 01-13-2018 01:28 AM

You may be on to something with the belt. Also remove belt and check the feel of the arbor.

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#30 posted 01-13-2018 01:38 AM

Seems like there maybe some drag, I am not sure. I ordered a new belt. It is odd that delta didn’t design in a tension adjustment. Anyway I watched a YouTube video of a guy demonstrating the difference between a loose and a tight belt. The loose one acted just like mine… so I am hopeful again.

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1147 posts in 1920 days


#31 posted 01-13-2018 02:26 AM

Good bearing won’t spin freely like a top by hand. It should be a little tight but no play and be smooth when turned.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5675 posts in 2080 days


#32 posted 01-13-2018 02:49 AM

^ that depends on the ABEC rating and presence and viscosity of any lubricant in the bearing.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#33 posted 01-13-2018 03:51 AM

Thanks yeti. I spun the motor by hand and it felt about the same. I guess I wasn’t sure whether the arbor should spin like a top or not. Definitely no play in it.

View jonah's profile

jonah

2067 posts in 3658 days


#34 posted 01-13-2018 04:37 AM

So the motor isn’t mounted in a slot or anything that allows you to tension the belt?

I wouldn’t bother ordering a belt from Delta – just go to Grainger and grab the appropriate size. Sadly they are closed on weekends, I think.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7358 posts in 2558 days


#35 posted 01-13-2018 05:08 AM

So the motor isn t mounted in a slot or anything that allows you to tension the belt?

I wouldn t bother ordering a belt from Delta – just go to Grainger and grab the appropriate size. Sadly they are closed on weekends, I think.

- jonah

I seriously doubt Graingers would have that belt… it’s a poly-v belt, and Delta sells it for about $32. Most aftermarket suppliers are priced about the same, but Polytech Design has it for about $26, and you can probably find it even cheaper on e-bay (search for part number DPEC003211). But that does sound like it is the culprit.. it should not be able to slip that easily. Is there any visable damage such as glazing, distortions or stretching?

I’ve never touched the 36-725, but it doesn’t look like the belt is all that easy to swap out. Would be interested in hearing how it’s done if you go that route – and I bet a few others would be interested as well :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#36 posted 01-13-2018 06:02 PM

With the motor out it is not too bad. The hard part is pulling the motor, you may be able to swap them with it in. I will take pictures and post them when finished.

Belt seems to be stretched. Carlisle data sheet calls for a outer circumference of 14.5 inches, mine is measuring 14.75”.

Jonah there is no adjustable features

View bearswamp's profile

bearswamp

13 posts in 497 days


#37 posted 01-20-2018 07:09 PM

QUICK UPDATE: IT WAS THE BELT!!!

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1147 posts in 1920 days


#38 posted 01-20-2018 07:37 PM

Good to hear.

View AxkMan's profile

AxkMan

65 posts in 486 days


#39 posted 01-20-2018 08:56 PM

I do not have this particular power tool, but I had a similar symptom. I returned the tool under warranty and they came back and said it was the power cable that needed replaced. I take good care of this, but somehow the cable must have been tossed around too much.

The power supply (cable) sounds like your problem too me…

Edit:

Good to hear it. That’s a good tool.

View JKMDETAIL's profile

JKMDETAIL

218 posts in 2015 days


#40 posted 08-17-2018 05:49 PM



So the motor isn t mounted in a slot or anything that allows you to tension the belt?

I wouldn t bother ordering a belt from Delta – just go to Grainger and grab the appropriate size. Sadly they are closed on weekends, I think.

- jonah

I seriously doubt Graingers would have that belt… it s a poly-v belt, and Delta sells it for about $32. Most aftermarket suppliers are priced about the same, but Polytech Design has it for about $26, and you can probably find it even cheaper on e-bay (search for part number DPEC003211). But that does sound like it is the culprit.. it should not be able to slip that easily. Is there any visable damage such as glazing, distortions or stretching?

I ve never touched the 36-725, but it doesn t look like the belt is all that easy to swap out. Would be interested in hearing how it s done if you go that route – and I bet a few others would be interested as well :)

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Got mine apart last night with it in in the saw. I have found the belt in stock at my local industrial supply house….. $12.50 each. He has 3 in stock I plan on grabbing two while I am there. I have been running this saw for at least 3 years and noticed it slipping for at least 6 months till last night when it would not hardly cut at all. Motor is really quet when the blade isn’t spinning.

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