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View bbasiaga's profile

Sharpening system advice...final tweak to my setup?

by bbasiaga
posted 12-29-2017 04:27 AM


17 replies so far

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

3265 posts in 2865 days


#1 posted 12-29-2017 10:56 PM

Brian, I see things like this as barriers. Your current system is a bother so you probably don’t do it as often as you should and it takes away from your joy of woodworking. Buy the Shapton and and the barrier will be gone. FWIW

-- Art

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2262 posts in 2637 days


#2 posted 12-30-2017 01:35 AM

I have all grits of EZE-LAP diamond stones (slightly inferior to DMT due to different diamond structure but more affordable) and I rely heavily upon them. However, I just recently found out they make diamond plates for my Worksharp 3000. Going to give that a try after the new years.
I have no water stones or oil stones.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2094 days


#3 posted 12-30-2017 05:58 AM

I think the ezelaps are better quality than my dmt gear.

I bought some shaptons last year ish. 1k/5k/8k. I don’t have a sink in my shop so I wanted something ready to go with a squirt. The stiction can be pretty bad on the 2 higher grits but I’m used to it. They work very well for me though.

I don’t use diamond stones as part of my process. They are there to flatten the water stones on the rare occasion, and for setting up new irons or heavy primary bevel work. And odd and end stuff.

I could use just the 1k, 8k and strop if I needed for regular sharpening.

Edit: find what works for you. If you can afford it go for it. I hear the sigma power 2s (or something like that) are preferred over the shaptons. I think you have to get them from Japan though.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

482 posts in 4577 days


#4 posted 12-30-2017 01:29 PM

I usually sharpen by hitting the diamond plates and 8k side of the stone. I only use the grizzly for big reshaping jobs and my carving chisels . I basically don’t use the 1k/6k any more. I started with that when I got a set of chisels, but don’t use it too much, and it is too narrow for most plane blades.

The main issue I have is that the water stone is kind of a pain.

Hi Brian

I would use a differently sharpening strategy. It would be interesting if you tried it, and then reported back.

Firstly, hollow grind the bevel with your wet grinder to the edge of the blade.

Now you have a choice of freehanding the blade on flat on the hollow (which is what I do) or using a honing guide to create a small secondary bevel. If you freehand, the angle for the hollow grind should be the final bevel angle.

Which ever method you prefer, you will not need more that 3 strokes with the Fine diamond stone to raise a wire edge. If you ground to the very edge of the blade with the Grizzly, you could even start with the 4000 Norton.

The last step is to hone with the 8000 grit, again a few strokes are all that is needed to polish away the scratches of the 4000. Remember to polish the back of the blade with the 8000 (only). A strop (green compound on MDF) is also useful to ensure the wire is gone.

Keep the coarse DMT for flattening the Nortons. Use the Fine DMT in place of a 1000 waterstone to start. Keep the 4000/8000 Nortons. Ditch the rest.

I place an emphasis on creating a hollow grind as the foundation for all that follows.This may interest you: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2797 posts in 3491 days


#5 posted 12-30-2017 06:11 PM

I’ve used a bunch of different sharpening setups too and took a couple years to find something that I like ie. consistent and easy. Have a Tormek, gives great results but takes too much time. Used diamond stones for awhile too, and still have the coarse stone set up for the occasional edge that is chipped. Otherwise I just use 3 waterstones:
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/blade-sharpening/blade-sharpening-ohishi-waterstones-?node=4203

They just need a spritz of water before using so are always ready to go, without the mess of soaking, and I find that they’re quicker and give a finer edge compared to the diamond stones. I have 1000/4000/8000 grit. Unless I’ve been really hard on a blade and taken too long b/t sharpenings, most blades I can sharpen with this setup in under a minute.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View tacky68's profile

tacky68

89 posts in 2035 days


#6 posted 12-31-2017 04:10 AM

I have the full line-up of DMT Dia sharp(220-8000g). Six total plates. I do not get a mirror polish on the back.
My chisels are sharp, but not like I thought/hoped, even with a strop. I often do not get a wire edge either, but have been able to shave arm hair. Thought is was me not doing something right. Maybe I will look into some LN stones
(thanks Manitario), they are less expensive than the DMT’s.

Tim.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3522 days


#7 posted 12-31-2017 11:53 AM

I built this and it made my tools much easier to sharpen:
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3179

Now, the only thing I use stones for is to sharpen my pocket knife. All of my lathe tools and my plane blades only take seconds with the above sharpening system. As a result, I sharpen them more frquently and keep tham much sharper in use. Just my 2-cents…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2603 days


#8 posted 01-02-2018 09:25 PM

Thanks for all the input. I was reading around again and figured out my diamond ‘fine’ stone is more like 600 grit than 1k. So I’ve been making a bigger jump there than I thought. I suppose it depends on which charts…It may be closer to 800. Either way, may explain why it always seemed to take more than 10 strokes to polish up like people always say.

I may look at the Ohishi 1k/8k combo, or separate 1k and 8k shaptons….something I will use more because it is less of a hassle. If I had a sink in the garage it would be a non issue…but that is way more expensive than new Stones!

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2502 days


#9 posted 01-02-2018 10:42 PM

For chisels and planes, I’ve used a 1k Shapton pro and a 8K Japanese polisher and that’s it – razor sharp every time. No need to have too many steps.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2603 days


#10 posted 01-03-2018 03:22 AM

Col. Travis,

I’ve basically been going 600 straight to 8k so far. It works ok too. I just wonder if I’d see some benefit to going up to 1k then to 8 k?

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 1112 days


#11 posted 01-03-2018 03:38 AM

I think I would stick with what you have…it’s working and it’s paid for. I mean, how often do you get it all out and sharpen with it? The way I see it, the money you spend {I get that you have the money} on upgrading for convenience could be going to {just for example} more/different shaper bits…or some other tool that could increase your capabilities. A better sharpening system might be nice and might save a little time, but it wont let you do more/different things. Now, if what you had just was not working that would be different, but it sounds like it does the job. Spend the cabbage on something that will increase your capabilities, not just make an “unliked” job a little easier. Just my opinion, take it for what it’s worth.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2502 days


#12 posted 01-03-2018 04:53 PM

I doubt if there would be a benefit moving from 600 to 1K in and of itself – but there could be an improvement because of the change of stone. I’ve got a very coarse DMT diamond stone that I use, primarily, to flatten my waterstones. I’ll use it to flatten the back of a brand new blade also. I prefer the way the waterstones cut vs. diamond. Just my preference, I haven’t tried other diamond stones, so I don’t know how fast they work compared to waterstones, which are fast sharpeners (that’s why I use them over oil and diamond.)

Also, I couldn’t tell you if my 8K stone cut like a true (whatever that is) 8K stone or a 10K stone of some other brand. There are so many brands out there, and they vary. My Shapton Pro 1K works better than the King 1K I had when starting out.

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

482 posts in 4577 days


#13 posted 01-03-2018 09:06 PM

Col. Travis,

I ve basically been going 600 straight to 8k so far. It works ok too. I just wonder if I d see some benefit to going up to 1k then to 8 k?

Brian

- bbasiaga

Brian, different stones are not going to get you sharper. Only a better technique will.

Stick with the King 1000, and Norton 4000/8000. That is all you need. Diamond stones are poor substitutes for waterstones. The grit in the diamond stones leaves deeper scratches, and these make it more difficult to move up to a higher grit.

Do not change your stones – at this time anyway. There is no magic bullet in a substitute stone. You need to make your stones work first – others have, so you know it is not the stones. Read my earlier post for tips on technique.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2603 days


#14 posted 01-04-2018 03:16 AM

Derek, thanks for all the advice. Just to be clear, I’m getting acceptably sharp with what I have, Its just a pain because I don’t have a sink in the garage (Shop). So i have to haul stuff inside to do the sharpening. If I went with stones that don’t have to be soaked, I could use them outside in the garage with little fuss. That is what started this whole thread – getting an 8k shapton or ohishi stone does that for me, as I could use it in combination with my fine diamond.

Kind of got on a tangent with the 600 vs. 1k to 8k transition there.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5522 posts in 2917 days


#15 posted 01-04-2018 05:53 AM



I ve used a bunch of different sharpening setups too and took a couple years to find something that I like ie. consistent and easy. Have a Tormek, gives great results but takes too much time. Used diamond stones for awhile too, and still have the coarse stone set up for the occasional edge that is chipped. Otherwise I just use 3 waterstones:
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/blade-sharpening/blade-sharpening-ohishi-waterstones-?node=4203

They just need a spritz of water before using so are always ready to go, without the mess of soaking, and I find that they re quicker and give a finer edge compared to the diamond stones. I have 1000/4000/8000 grit. Unless I ve been really hard on a blade and taken too long b/t sharpenings, most blades I can sharpen with this setup in under a minute.

- Manitario


Across the table from your 3 stones are 3 rectangular objects. Are those diamond plates for flatting the stone? If so why 3, or maybe they are something else.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

482 posts in 4577 days


#16 posted 01-04-2018 06:07 AM



Derek, thanks for all the advice. Just to be clear, I m getting acceptably sharp with what I have, Its just a pain because I don t have a sink in the garage (Shop). So i have to haul stuff inside to do the sharpening. If I went with stones that don t have to be soaked, I could use them outside in the garage with little fuss. That is what started this whole thread – getting an 8k shapton or ohishi stone does that for me, as I could use it in combination with my fine diamond.

Kind of got on a tangent with the 600 vs. 1k to 8k transition there.

Brian

- bbasiaga

Brian, you might then consider the stones I use, which require little (if any) water – at most a spritz from a spray bottle …

1000 Pro Shapton
Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco ( these are ceramic stones, which are hard like oil stones, and do not wear).
You can add Lee Valley green compound on MDF if you wish

Note that the Spyderco are only 2” wide, but this is fine for me as I freehand sharpen (on a hollow grind).

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View Robert's profile

Robert

3602 posts in 2089 days


#17 posted 01-04-2018 04:32 PM

I have almost the identical setup and know you can get perfectly adequate results with what you have. If I’m not lazy and rehone when I should ;-) ;-) I can go 10 strokes on the 1250—>15 strokes on 8000—>6 strokes on strop, and I’m back to work in a little over a minute.

If space allows, how about a stone pond? I used to keep mine in a plastic storage box but eventually made one of wood ala Frank Klausz. I keep the cover on and use my diamond plates on top of that.

Totally agree with Derek re: hollow grinding is definitely your friend.

Hope this helps.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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