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View Finley31's profile

Powermatic 66 magnetic starter problems

by Finley31
posted 12-21-2017 12:52 PM


27 replies so far

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10861 posts in 2364 days


#1 posted 12-21-2017 01:17 PM

Mightve blown the coil on the starter. A close up pic would help.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2901 posts in 3393 days


#2 posted 12-21-2017 01:24 PM

I’d say you fried the starter coil. That would be the coil of wire that sets up a magnetic field around the contacts and pulls in the iron mount in the middle of the contacts.

You might be lucky and just fried the overload.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#3 posted 12-21-2017 02:11 PM

Thanks for the quick responses. I found some replacement coils on eBay. I think I might try to get one and see if that fixes the problem.

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TheFridge

10861 posts in 2364 days


#4 posted 12-21-2017 02:17 PM

It’s fairly easy to check. Check continuity on the coil. As a general rule, If it has continuity it’s good. If it doesn’t it’s bad. Just make sure you disconnect either one of the leads to the coil when you do it.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#5 posted 12-23-2017 02:29 PM



It’s fairly easy to check. Check continuity on the coil. As a general rule, If it has continuity it’s good. If it doesn’t it’s bad. Just make sure you disconnect either one of the leads to the coil when you do it.

- TheFridge

I checked the continuity on the coil this morning and it appears to be good. I already ordered a replacement coil. Could it be possible there is something else that would keep it from pulling in?

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CharlesNeil

2501 posts in 4749 days


#6 posted 12-23-2017 02:40 PM

Try lightly filing or sanding the contacts.. had a PM and had to to do that on occasion… of course disconnect the power

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8231 posts in 3077 days


#7 posted 12-23-2017 04:22 PM

Post a closeup of your starter so we can see what you got. Sounds like you toasted the low voltage control transformer.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#8 posted 12-23-2017 06:25 PM

Close ups of the starter. By the way I appreciate all the helpful responses.

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MrUnix

8231 posts in 3077 days


#9 posted 12-23-2017 06:32 PM

Still can’t really tell, but across the top there are some jumpers to set the control transformer supply voltage… did you change that when you switched to 240v? If you didn’t, then you most likely fried the transformer running it on 240v when it was still wired for 120v. Should be easy check though, just plug it in and see what voltage is coming out of the transformer with a meter. The voltage should be marked on the transformer label (circled).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#10 posted 12-30-2017 02:10 AM

I received my new coil and installed it this evening with no luck. I got my meter out and started tracing the power. I found I have 120v coming in on the white wire in the photo below. From there it goes into the overload relay on the bottom but stops there. The relay is not tripped so is it possible that it’s the problem? At this point I’m considering buying a new starter. Could I just get one of the grizzly starters and swap it out?

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MrUnix

8231 posts in 3077 days


#11 posted 12-30-2017 04:28 AM

Just to make sure – did you push in the manual reset (red button at bottom) to make sure it wasn’t tripped? Also, is there a control voltage transformer (not the coil)? Symptoms sounds like you lost control voltage, since it will work when manually engaged.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Alex Lane's profile

Alex Lane

575 posts in 4768 days


#12 posted 12-30-2017 03:55 PM



Just to make sure – did you push in the manual reset (red button at bottom) to make sure it wasn t tripped? Also, is there a control voltage transformer (not the coil)? Symptoms sounds like you lost control voltage, since it will work when manually engaged.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

I think Brad has a good suggestion. I feel your pain! Had an old 3 phase bandsaw with the same problem on a similar control. I could manually push up the contactor to make it start. I never actually addressed the issue though, since I was converting to single phase. I merely bought a single phase motor and new switch, and put the old motor and control in a box on the shelf. Probably needs the control transformer replaced but I was sick of messing with it. Laziness prevailed lol. Since yours is already single phase it’s probably worth the effort to get the control fixed or replaced. That’s a really nice saw!

-- Alex...builder of wooden wings for vintage sport biplanes...I'm your wingman :)

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

504 posts in 2799 days


#13 posted 12-30-2017 06:07 PM

How about a pic. of the wiring diagram on the cover.
That starter is $250

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#14 posted 01-01-2018 01:52 AM



How about a pic. of the wiring diagram on the cover.
That starter is $250

- Fresch

Thanks for all the responses. After much frustration I ordered a new starter from amazon. Definitely not the quality I had, and I’m not giving up on my old one but I need to get the saw back up and running.

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MrUnix

8231 posts in 3077 days


#15 posted 01-01-2018 02:21 AM

You really got to learn how to take better pictures ;)

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Here is a used one for $20

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View alittleoff's profile

alittleoff

548 posts in 2155 days


#16 posted 01-01-2018 03:17 AM

Did you have a 110 volt coil when you starded or 220 volts. Did you replace it with a 110 volt coil? Do you have 110 volts going to the coil or 220 volts going to the new coil. Makes a big difference. My guess is the coil blew if it was 110 volts and you changed it to 220. Did you take the wires off the coil and test it where they were connected? Do you even have a control transformer since it was 110 volts? You really need to recheck all your wires and make sure you’ve got the right before putting in a new starter. If the coil in your new starter is not the right voltage you could blow it also. It’s hard to trouble shoot a starter and try and tell someone how to fix the problem wit a keyboard. Their pretty simple if you’ve worked on them before but hard to understand if you havent.
Gerald

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MrUnix

8231 posts in 3077 days


#17 posted 01-01-2018 04:03 AM

Did you have a 110 volt coil when you starded or 220 volts.
- alittleoff

I already asked about that and never got an answer :(
The control voltage is set via jumpers as I pointed out in a previous post up above. I found a better picture of the starter data sheet online, and here is the relevant part about setting the jumpers for either 120 or 240v:

Also – If you are switching voltage, you will also need to swap out your overload heater, since you are altering the current requirement. Here is the relevant portion about heater selections for the starter:

It’s not an entirely straight forward process. You need to rewire the motor for 240v (assuming it’s a dual voltage motor), rewire the control voltage in the starter for 240v, change the supply cord from using a 120v to a 240v plug, and replace the heater to one appropriate for the new voltage/current rating.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Sparks500

279 posts in 1209 days


#18 posted 01-01-2018 03:37 PM

Thats not where you check for continuity. You just touched the steel core. Where are you located? You should probably try to get someone in to fix this before it gets worse.

-- A good day is any day that you're alive....

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#19 posted 01-01-2018 03:52 PM



Did you have a 110 volt coil when you starded or 220 volts. Did you replace it with a 110 volt coil? Do you have 110 volts going to the coil or 220 volts going to the new coil. Makes a big difference. My guess is the coil blew if it was 110 volts and you changed it to 220. Did you take the wires off the coil and test it where they were connected? Do you even have a control transformer since it was 110 volts? You really need to recheck all your wires and make sure you ve got the right before putting in a new starter. If the coil in your new starter is not the right voltage you could blow it also. It s hard to trouble shoot a starter and try and tell someone how to fix the problem wit a keyboard. Their pretty simple if you ve worked on them before but hard to understand if you havent.
Gerald

- alittleoff

Your exactly right, I appreciate all the comments and help, but I’m not gaining much ground trying to troubleshoot it over the internet. I have learned a lot about the working of the starter though through his process, but at this point it isn’t worth the frustration or time to keep going so I ordered a new starter on amazon. I know some people who can help me out to figure out what’s wrong with the old one when time allows.

Thanks again to everyone.

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

504 posts in 2799 days


#20 posted 01-01-2018 04:30 PM

Smoke on the horizon?

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10861 posts in 2364 days


#21 posted 01-01-2018 05:01 PM

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 1470 days


#22 posted 01-01-2018 05:03 PM

I would ignore all the advises you get here. Stop messing with that thing and call someone knowlegeable to help. Mistakes with wiring bite back hard and you got lucky by only loosing the switch.

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TheFridge

10861 posts in 2364 days


#23 posted 01-01-2018 08:35 PM

And ignore the idiot who is telling you to ignore someone with 17 years experience and graduated the top of his class much less someone else who is one of the most knowledgeable when it comes to machines.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#24 posted 01-01-2018 11:42 PM



- TheFridge

I have checked between the contacts on both side of the coil with my meter set to read ohms and I have a reading across both sets of contacts on both coils the old one the and “new used” one. That would lead me to believe Both coils are good. The only place I did not get a good reading was across the two red wires going through each side of the overload BUT if I disconnect those two wires and jumper them I still get no results. Thanks again.

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TheFridge

10861 posts in 2364 days


#25 posted 01-02-2018 06:59 AM

No problem. You should get very similar resistance readings as well.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Finley31

9 posts in 1035 days


#26 posted 01-04-2018 01:31 AM

Update:

I’m back in business. Ordered a replacement starter on amazon and the saw fired right up and is running great. I still want to fix the old starter if possible. I really think it’s something to do with the overload switch.
Thanks for all the help and positive comments. Now I need to figure out how to post pictures that aren’t sideways and crappy.

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TheFridge

10861 posts in 2364 days


#27 posted 01-04-2018 04:48 AM

Either take the pic in landscape with phone sideways or edit its orientation in the smallest way. I usually turn it a degree one way or the other.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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